1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,680 [Music] 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome To Me, where we talk about movies and shows that cover true crime, paranormal and horror. 3 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:27,920 I am one of your hosts, Dawn. I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I'm pretty well versed in the horror genre, 4 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:35,360 especially those 80s classics. A quick fun fact about me? I have a very extensive crystal collection. 5 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:43,920 Hello, I'm Amy. I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal. A few fun facts about me. 6 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:50,240 I'm an empath, I collect old dolls and you know, I've never flown on an airplane. Can you believe that? 7 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:57,840 Now Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime, so here we are. Talk Gruesome To Me. 8 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:09,200 Hello, we are here with a new trio of episodes and this time we are going to have sort of like The Conjuring where the three of them all tied together very closely. 9 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:16,720 We are covering the Amityville House. Amy and I watched this documentary on YouTube. 10 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:25,200 It's called the Amityville Horror Documentary. Documentary is in parentheses and it's around 120 minutes. 11 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:34,160 Once you get halfway through, you'll see it kind of looks like it ends, but it restarts again with a second part to it. 12 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:43,040 So they, somebody took the two parts and stitched it into one video. Obviously, these are just our opinions when we get to them. 13 00:01:43,040 --> 00:02:00,880 But this one, I think, you know, it's been so long since I've seen the movie or anything about the story that I kind of wanted to cover something obviously true crime but more factual, because I don't even really remember the stories. 14 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:12,880 In fact, when this started and they had Kathy and George Lutz on, I thought to myself, I thought they died. Clearly, I needed a refresher. 15 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,200 Time for a reup. Like you said, time to refresh. Yeah. 16 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:25,120 This part one, as I said, it included the Lutz’s, Ed Warren was in it a little bit. He's more in part two. 17 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:34,560 Hans Holzer was in part one and I think a couple of phrases in part two. I really like some of the stuff that he did. 18 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:45,040 So I was surprised to see him, but in a good way. There were some cool, just like some weird facts about the house and the area. 19 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:52,640 So Amityville is outside of New York City. I think it said maybe an hour, but I can't remember. 20 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:59,680 And then Will Rogers and Annie Oakley both lived there, which just little fun facts. 21 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:10,320 And then the house, it's on Ocean Avenue. Some of these, actually I feel like a lot of these are not able to be confirmed. 22 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:18,640 Take this with a grain of salt. It's reported that, and I didn't want to butcher the Native American name. 23 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:27,040 So I'm just going to say that there was a native tribe and they thought that that street in particular, 24 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:34,080 or that area surrounding the house was like a power spot and possibly infested by demons. 25 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:44,880 And that their enemies were left to die and buried face down so that they were cursed to stare at nothing for eternity. 26 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:50,160 Again, I don't know if that's true. It was in the documentary. That's harsh. 27 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:59,760 Totally. Going into the Salem witch trials. So those were in the late 1600s. There was a guy named John 28 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:06,400 Ketcham. He was forced out of Salem because they said he was practicing witchcraft. It's rumored that 29 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:13,920 he lived in that area surrounding the Amityville house. Supposedly, he continued doing witchcraft 30 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:22,640 when he was there and his body may be buried on the property. Again, none of that's completely verified. 31 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:30,720 But interesting, there is a Ketcham street right near the house. I don't know. I mean, that could easily 32 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:38,080 be found out. We do have tools that, you don't even have to dig the ground up anymore. 33 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,720 True. I wonder if they've ever tried to look. I don't know. I'd like for them to. 34 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:49,920 Yeah, they definitely didn't come down. Just because. There was a different house built on that 35 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:58,080 property originally in 1782. The house was moved and there are debating issues. It was reported 36 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:04,560 that the house was moved because people wouldn't live there very long and it kept having a turnover. 37 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:12,400 However, the historical society says that the house was moved because the family needed a bigger 38 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:19,280 house. Then they built this bigger house. I don't know. They're all rumors, I guess. There's also a rumor 39 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:28,160 that a boy drowned. The house is on a body of water or some kind of where you can have a boat. 40 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,880 Big enough that you can have a boat. Right, because they had the little boat house out there. 41 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:40,400 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's a rumor that a boy drowned, but again, it's not confirmed. It's 42 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:47,120 just something that I do remember that being in the movie, I think. I don't know. Yes. Oh, it was. 43 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:52,640 Okay. I have to rewatch the movie for our third segment for the horror episode. Yeah, they had the 44 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:57,680 little boat house in there and all because remember they had the storms coming in and he went down 45 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:05,040 to try to secure it. And then they started having activity down there. Oh, I haven't seen the movie 46 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:12,320 and at least probably 30 years. I don't even remember. It's been a while for me too, but it scared me 47 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:18,880 when I was younger. I remember it scared me. So, I remember some of those parts because I was like, 48 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:24,160 that's wild. I don't remember if it scared me, but probably not because I'm a weirdo. 49 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:30,080 Fun fact, I asked Shannon last night. He didn't watch it with me. I watched it by myself, but I was telling him 50 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:36,160 that this was a pretty good documentary. And I was like, you know, just having a fun little conversation, 51 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:43,280 did this story, movie, and everything that happened scare you when you were younger. And you know what 52 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:51,440 he said? Yes. Yes. He said it did. So that kind of surprised me too. I was like, well, you know, it 53 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:58,640 scared me as well. I just, I didn't expect him to say yes. I have no idea if it scared me. It did 54 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:06,240 me. I remember. I was so drawn to the way the house looked. Every way they portrayed it, the lights 55 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:12,240 were always on up there. They did really good with that. That was just a way to draw you in to it. 56 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:18,960 It always did. Well, the house kind of looks like it has eyes. And they made it look like that in 57 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:26,160 every picture that you would see of it too. I agree with you. It just gives the house a certain look. 58 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:36,560 Right. It's the Amityville Horror House. Yep. When you see the old iconic look, you know what it is. 59 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:42,880 There's no question. Oh, yes. And that's why I love it. I know I've always wondered, I mean, it looks 60 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:48,720 different now. I've always wondered if they were going to tear it down and start over. Well, we'll 61 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:57,200 get into that a little bit, won't we? Now, if we go back to the start in the summer of 1965, the 62 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:04,400 DeFaeo family, they had five children. That's when they purchased this home. Sadly, the oldest 63 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:13,040 Son Ronnie, killed the parents, brothers, and sisters. Now, he was close to his mother, but not close 64 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:21,280 at all with his father. He was considered to be a spoiled and he just kind of, I guess, wasn't 65 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:29,360 really, he didn't amount to much. He didn't, he wasn't a go getter. I don't want to speak bad of him, 66 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:37,360 but it just kind of seems like he was out partying instead of trying to better himself at the time of 67 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:46,000 his age. But maybe it was just a phase. I don't know, but it did bother his dad. They did not 68 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:56,080 see eye to eye, and they totally did not agree. In 1973, the violence and abuse had escalated, and 69 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:03,280 Ronnie also said that he was hearing voices and noises and walking around and a lot of screaming. 70 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:09,520 His dad started hitting the mom, hitting the kids and at that point, Ronnie starts going out. He's 71 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:15,760 doing a lot of different drugs, a lot of speed, heroin, LSD. All of this craziness that he was 72 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:23,360 Experiencing in his life ended him to threaten his sister, Dawn, with a gun, which his dad was able to 73 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:30,560 stop. Luckily that gun did not have any bullets in it. His dad put artifacts around the house, 74 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:37,600 around the yard. A priest was said to have come and done an exorcism, but there is no record of that 75 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:44,000 actually happening. And that is from the Catholic church. Nobody could actually go back and say, 76 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:50,560 yes, it was done or no, it was not done. Dad would say that he had a devil on his back to others, 77 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:56,080 talking about Ronnie. The housekeeper said Mr. Defeo would always tell her something bad was 78 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:03,040 going to happen like she was possibly having a primination. Ronnie, he would move in and out 79 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:09,040 of the home. His dad would spend money to go looking for him to bring him back to the home. 80 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:16,400 I'm not sure exactly where he would be each time, but his dad made sure that he did go find him, 81 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:25,520 no matter what the cost was, and get him back. Why he had such a need to fill the control to bring 82 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:33,040 him. I don't know. It just kind of seems like maybe by this point you would have considered it 83 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:41,200 a lost cause and let him kind of go make his own fall and let him come back on his own. Wouldn't you 84 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:48,240 think so? I don't know. It doesn't make sense. Why do you keep having him come back if it's volatile? 85 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:57,360 Yeah, I don't understand that at all. Now in November of 1974 Ronnie and his dad got into a fight 86 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:03,920 and his dad referred to Ronnie as the devil. Ronnie says if he doesn't get out, 87 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:13,760 that he is going to actually kill the family. Now on November 13th of 1974, while the family was 88 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:19,840 sleeping, Ronnie was watching army movies, and he said he heard the family whisper and thought they 89 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:26,720 were conspiring to kill him. A person in black appeared to him and supposedly handed him a gun. 90 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:33,680 He shot his father, Ronald Sr. and then he shot his mother, Louise. Said he could not stop. He 91 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:40,640 then proceeded to shoot his two younger brothers, Mark, who was 11. His brother, John Matthew, who was 92 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:48,560 9. His younger sister, Allison, who was 13 and then his older sister, Dawn, who was 18. Ronnie 93 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:55,040 reports the murders himself and then he also confesses. Trial is one year later and he tried to say 94 00:11:55,040 --> 00:12:01,840 that he was insane. He was actually found guilty of six counts of second degree murder, and that he was 95 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:09,440 sane. He ultimately got 25 to life for each one of the murders that he did commit. There were no 96 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:16,400 traces of drugs in the family system. There was no silencer on the gun and no one woke up, no one 97 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:22,800 heard anything. Also, when we go back to what Dawn had spoke about with the Native Americans and 98 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,160 everything that had been said to or believed to have happened on that property. 99 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:33,360 The Native Americans said that they are going to dispute 100 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:40,000 that there is any burial grounds there or there was ever any sort of curse. Back to no one hearing 101 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:48,800 anything. None of the neighbors woke up. Also, I do find it odd. Say when he shoots his dad first, 102 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:56,480 why does no one else in the house wake up? That is weird to me. Yeah, and I mean, I'm assuming they're 103 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:03,600 saying that nobody woke up because they were laying in a certain position. So why didn't the mom wake up? 104 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:11,760 I don't know. Yeah. It was right beside you. Right beside you. Now, back to the drugs and the system 105 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:17,200 of the rest of the family. Of course, they were found to be negative. There was nothing in their system. 106 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:26,240 But in 1999, Ronald does say that he was using drugs, and he tries to use that as an excuse. He 107 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:33,440 said that a killer came into the home, killed his family. That was really not believed. Nobody 108 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:41,040 bought what he was trying to sell. And his request for parole was denied. Good idea. Yeah. 109 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:47,680 That doesn't even make sense. I was doing drugs and then somebody broke in and killed them all. 110 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:54,160 While I sat there. No way. Are you meaning you took the drugs and you were knocked out? 111 00:13:54,720 --> 00:14:00,800 And the killer was like, Oh, well, looks like we just must have forgot we got him. Right. I mean, he was the 112 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:07,920 only one that they didn't kill. Well, no, they forgot. We got him. I said, just does it. It doesn't make any 113 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:14,800 sense. Does it? No. And clearly, that's why he was denied parole. Yeah. They're like, man, we'll give you 114 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,600 how many every years to try to figure something better and then we'll deny you again. Right. 115 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:30,720 I said, keep going fast forward to the Lutz's in December of 1975. George, he was 28 at the time. 116 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:39,680 And Kathy, who was 30, Kathy had three kids. There were three, no, two boys. Daniel, he was 10, 117 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:46,880 Christopher 7 and Melissa was 5. So they moved in. And their friends suggested that they have 118 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:53,840 this priest. They call him Father Ray. Bless the house. So Father Ray came in. This is what he said he 119 00:14:53,840 --> 00:15:01,520 experienced at the time when he did the house blessing. He said that he went into the sewing room. 120 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:08,880 And it was very cold. He told them, you know, don't spend too much time in this room. He also heard 121 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:18,160 while he was spraying holy water. No big deal. He heard, get out. And then he says something slapped him 122 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:25,440 in the face. I kind of feel we've talked about police reports before and how we think that they're 123 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:33,280 pretty reputable. Why would a cop lie about something that is probably going to be perceived as weird 124 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:40,400 among their cop friends. I kind of feel like the same with a priest. It would be weird for them to lie 125 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:52,240 about this. Okay. But let's rewind to not too many episodes ago where I spoke about wet carpets 126 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:58,720 and $400 rent. Big, beautiful home. Yep. $80,000. 127 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:10,480 Big, beautiful home. Get smacked in the face. Get out. $80,000. Not worth it to me, but maybe to some. 128 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:17,680 Right. And I'm not saying it could never happen because look at some of the things priests do to little 129 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:25,760 kids. So, yeah. I'm not saying a priest can't lie, but I would hope they wouldn't. I don't know. 130 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:32,640 Just thought I threw that in there. So the Lutz is moving. And they say that from day one, they were hearing 131 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:40,480 sounds. It would be escalating where at first they thought the sounds were just like, oh that was 132 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:46,240 kind of weird, but maybe it's an old house sound, whatever. But then the sounds started to change and 133 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:54,480 they became very loud banging, scraping on the walls. The kids were starting to get scared. They'd 134 00:16:54,480 --> 00:17:00,480 see things the way that they described it was there would be multiple people sitting on the couch 135 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:06,960 together, but they'd each see something different. They'd see something, all of them, but what they saw 136 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:13,200 wasn't the same as the person sitting next to them, which I thought was interesting. Terrifying too. 137 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:19,520 Little odd. How do you explain what crazy? Almost like it's trying to make you feel like you're 138 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:26,240 crazy. That's a good point. And then George, for some reason, he became obsessed with the fireplace. 139 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:34,160 I guess he was like obsessed with the firewood and he was super, super focused. Yeah, because he 140 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:40,880 couldn't get warm. They reported that all of their personalities started changing. The temperature 141 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:47,120 changes all throughout the house were happening. They would smell perfume in the bathroom. They said 142 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:54,400 that there would be black stains on the wall. And then the infestation of flies in the winter. 143 00:17:54,400 --> 00:18:01,200 And I believe it was that same sewing room. They said they would have a bunch of flies. They could 144 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:06,640 leave the room and come back and there would be even more. But since it's the winter, it's even more 145 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:13,040 odd. They went in the basement. I actually think it was Kathy, but no, I can't remember for sure. 146 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:20,240 Went in the basement and there was a shelving unit. So they moved it over. There was a room behind 147 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:26,480 it. It was painted red. Their dog, they had a lab. Their dog wouldn't go near the room. It was 148 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:34,880 terrified of this room. George started waking up every night at 3.15 a.m., which was the same time 149 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:42,400 that the murders happened, I guess. Kathy was now having nightmares about the murders every night. 150 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:50,560 Missy, the daughter who was 5. She, all of the sudden, had an imaginary friend named Jody. 151 00:18:50,560 --> 00:19:00,880 George was hearing escalated sounds again, slamming. He would go into the room where Missy would be 152 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:08,560 talking about Jody and the rocking chair would be going, creepey. He went around. He was doing the 153 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:15,520 Lord's Prayer. All around the whole house, he heard a voice say, "Will you stop?" They tried to get a 154 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:23,440 hold again of Father Ray, but oddly, they couldn’t, multiple attempts. They couldn't get a hold of him. 155 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:29,680 There was always sort of interference or static or the phone wouldn't dial, things like that. So they 156 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:35,520 literally just couldn't get a hold of Father Ray to come bless the house. Now this documentary 157 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:44,080 looked older. It didn't have a year. It definitely looked older. But as of that interview, they said that 158 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:53,440 they had never discussed openly what happened the night that they left, but that it is included in a 159 00:19:53,440 --> 00:20:03,280 book that was written that they sort of contributed on. 28 days after moving in. January 14, 1976, 160 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:09,760 they abandoned the house. They abandoned all their belongings. They turned it over to the bank. 161 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:17,120 The bank sold their belongings for only $1,600 and the family moved to California. All they took 162 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:25,200 with them was one cedar box that had all their photos in it and that was that. Now, can we stop and talk 163 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:33,360 about what their belongings actually were that were in that house? Oh, I didn't notice. All of the 164 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:43,360 Defoe belongings. Oh, how did I miss that? It come with the house. So good ridden, $1,600 is a steal. 165 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:49,920 Oh, I didn't know. Evan was doing dishes. Yes. I think I missed it. Come on now, Evan. No seriously, 166 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:56,240 I'm missing with you. But yeah, the all of everything when the house was sold, it had everything left. 167 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:02,560 I don't believe you had the mattresses, but you had the bed frames that the family passed away on. 168 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:10,000 That was they were murdered on. Yes. So when you say belongings, okay, yeah, they had their clothes, 169 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:16,400 and their toys, or whatever they did bring from their previous life. I'm guessing because 170 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:21,920 this was probably some really nice furniture that was in a very nice house when they moved in, 171 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:27,040 they kept a lot of it and maybe got rid of the things that they had before. So a lot of those 172 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:35,840 belongings were the Defeo. Okay. I feel like I would move into a house where a murder took place. 173 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:46,000 But I would not want the belongings. No, that brings a whole different level to it. All of that 174 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:52,400 is still carrying the... well, I can't say all of it was carrying, but all of it has the potential, 175 00:21:52,400 --> 00:22:00,480 just like Jason Hawes said, to still carry the energy that is left over from what happened in 176 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:07,120 each of those rooms, each of those beds, underneath that roof. All of it has the potential to hold on 177 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:15,440 to every bit of it. Yeah. And I'm honestly kind of glad that this documentary, I'm going to say, 178 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:24,160 for what I think in the end that I'm going to say, my opinion is on this whole case, I'm glad that 179 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:29,920 they split it up in one side true crime and one side paranormal. And that'll make sense when I go 180 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:38,400 into what I think was actually going on, I guess we'll say, who cares what I think, but I'm going to 181 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:46,960 tell you anyways. And the second half is more paranormal, but yes, really, it more talks about 182 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:54,640 all the controversies. It kind of dives more into the paranormal side, though. Yeah, but you have to 183 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,600 include that when you're talking about these controversies. So if someone's thinking about watching it 184 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,960 and they're like, oh, I'm not really interested in the paranormal aspect, it is, but it's also not, 185 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:13,760 it's not fully paranormal. With this case, it's really hard to, unless you just want to look 186 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:23,200 completely at the Defeo's, it's hard to look at the Amityville story and not put even a little bit 187 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:29,600 of paranormal into it, because you have what happened with the Lutz. Now, if you just want to speak 188 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:35,360 about the murders that happened at Ocean Avenue, you can go ahead and just talk about the true crime 189 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:42,640 story of the Defeo's. But of course, this documentary is a little bit more than that. When we were looking 190 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:50,240 for things to watch, it was really hard to find something that was strictly true crime and not 191 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:58,960 just paranormal. So this is kind of the only thing that we found that was more true crime. 192 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:04,320 Well, I'm not going to mention any names of what you had me watching before or where it come from, 193 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:10,320 but how long was that over an hour? I don't know. I didn't watch it. I watched 25 minutes of it 194 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,720 and actually paid attention. I don't think I could tell you what happened in those 25 minutes. 195 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:22,240 Most of the things that you're going to find are either movies or documentaries, but they're all 196 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:28,480 only about the haunting. So if you're more interested in the true crime aspect, then watch this one 197 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,000 on YouTube. Right. If you want to hear what happened beforehand as well as what happened in the, 198 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,520 we're going to say big lights that they made the big story, you know, you're going to want to know 199 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,880 what happened. Like I'm going to say, many of times, you cannot have paranormal without history. 200 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:51,120 That's just kind of how they go hand in hand with this case. What I think. But let's go back to the 201 00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:57,840 Lutz. Now the Lutz asked the Defeo attorney William Weber if he had had any knowledge of any 202 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:04,720 weird things going on at the house. He did not believe them, but he decided to help write a book 203 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:11,760 about Ronnie. They wanted to talk about if he was possessed or not, you know, was he a murderer or 204 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:18,320 was this something that he had no control over? Lutz refused to work with Weber because Ronnie would 205 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:26,320 get book money. They didn't want to put money into his pockets. Now press conference with Lutz 206 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:32,720 and Weber brings people flocking into the house. Of course, you can only imagine the things that 207 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:41,200 people are thinking and they want to see this big crazy scary demon house pretty much. It's not 208 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:48,160 called the demon house, but a lot of people would think that that's exactly what it is. George contacts 209 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:55,200 paranormal researchers, including Steven Kaplan and his wife Roxanne. George cancels paranormal 210 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:02,160 investigations. They think that it's controversy. A lot of people are looking at it and probably thinking 211 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:09,920 that it's not something that is needed to be done. And it's probably more a little bit taboo. 212 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:16,560 We all know how that goes, especially if you are interested in paranormal investigating or you 213 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:24,640 by chance are a paranormal investigator like Dawn and I. Can I correct one thing? Yeah. Steven Kaplan. 214 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,760 You said Kaplan, but I want to make sure we get that right Kaplan. Okay, thank you for correcting 215 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:36,800 me on that. I definitely do not want to say a name wrong. Now, Kaplan Kaplan, see, look at me. 216 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:45,280 I'm messing it up again. Now Kaplan says everything is fake and there is nothing paranormal about this house, 217 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:51,360 that it's just probably a murder and they're faking everything because the Lutz want attention. 218 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:58,960 They want money is probably what I'm guessing. 219 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:08,880 220 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:17,440 They find researcher Laura Didillo and also reach out to the Warren's. That's three weeks after they left 221 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:25,600 the house. The Lutz were looking for somebody to help them understand what was going on. February 25, 222 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:33,520 1976. The Warrens investigate the house with a camera crew. Now Lorraine said the house was sad and 223 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:40,880 had a very depressing feel. Ed said he saw an inhuman presence in the basement and 10 out of a 10 224 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:50,000 haunting. It was active. They really believed that something was going on there. March 6, 1976. They 225 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,920 returned with the news crew, and Laura, and other researchers. Now reporters asked for a say on it. 226 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:02,080 They did a couple of them. Reporters said nothing weird happened and said the movie was scarier 227 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:08,080 than actually being at the house. Someone caught a child in a photo, says the press. It was 228 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:15,760 changed and exaggerated about what it happened. They didn't exactly tell the truth about the photo. 229 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:24,000 You know exactly like you'll hear us say exaggeration and all the hype it sells and it makes money. 230 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:30,480 The Kaplan’s, Warren's and Lutz were always very combative and they were saying that this was not true. 231 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:37,360 Nothing was fake and nothing that they said was a lie. Now attorney Weber contacts Hans Holzser a year 232 00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:45,040 after the Lutz family moves, and I don't know if any of you have watched his show, but I do love watching 233 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:50,400 all of the recordings. What's the? It's the Holzer files. Oh my gosh one of my favorites. 234 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,040 Yes, yes, yes. I didn't know if any of you have watched it, but that is a really good show. 235 00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:01,440 Now Holzer and Medium Ethel go to the house and she picks up negative energy. 236 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:08,240 Historical society says the Native Chief was dug up and Holzer says that the chief influenced 237 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:16,960 Defeo. Kaplan says Holzer was lying just to write a book again, again, again. This kind of thing it 238 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:24,240 sells and it makes money. Kaplan and Defeo's attorney accused Lutz of plotting the whole thing and 239 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:30,880 making money off the Defeo story. The Kramardi family moved in and sued for constant media and 240 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:39,360 investigators visiting. But we've said this before, if you buy a home like this that's kind of something 241 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:47,200 that you have to expect from the get co. Weber sued Lutz for taking some of his ideas and putting 242 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:54,240 them into the film. The Lutz both pass polygraphs though. They were given by publication about the 243 00:29:54,240 --> 00:30:03,120 activity so I don't know. I don't know how to look at that. Everybody says they're lying. People 244 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:11,440 think that it's all being brought up to a way bigger boiling point than it is just for money. 245 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:20,480 But you have the lie detector test that the Lutz passed. And they were given by professional 246 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:27,760 lie detector people who were I think they said the third rated highest lie detector people, I don't 247 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,080 know what you call them in the country. I mean when you go to the country, number three is not bad. 248 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:40,480 Right there's a lot of companies that do that. But the thing about this home now it looks different. 249 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:47,840 It's been changed on the way it looks on the outside and has a new address. Are the people 250 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:54,560 that live there still the same family. Actually I'm not sure who lives there now. 251 00:30:54,560 --> 00:31:02,000 I'm not sure either but I'm guessing new address, new looks, still the same old song and dance. 252 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:09,360 Oh I'm sure, but to your point it's wild that someone moved into this house and then sued the 253 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:15,200 Lutz is because of all the media attention. What and they I think what I recall they settled out of 254 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:20,960 court. I would have been like you knew what you were getting into sorry don't know what to tell you. 255 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:30,800 When you bought this home it was in the disclaimer my friend. Right? Yes so weird. Yeah you knew 256 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,880 where you were going, the Lutz knew where they were going. If you like peace and quiet don't buy a famous 257 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:49,600 house. Fun. Plain and simple. Yeah don't do it. I agree 100% as for money talks do I think that it's 258 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:59,680 quite possible that maybe there was some truth stretched. Yeah I do. What do you think. I'm sure I mean 259 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:08,560 actually the Lutz admitted that in the book things were exaggerated and in the press but they 260 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:15,120 did say that things in the press were exaggerated by the press. They don't have control over that. 261 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:21,040 They didn't write whatever came out or whatever videos came out, so that was outside of their control. 262 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:28,240 Yeah things were exaggerated. Yeah. I think probably more than what anybody really wants to admit. 263 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:36,080 Fun, fun question let's have fun for a minute. Do you think that the Defeo case was 264 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:45,680 a the devil made me do it starter series maybe? Do you think there was paranormal activity going on 265 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:57,920 there before the murders occurred? Okay, do I think Ronnie DeFao was in a similar situation as 266 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:07,280 Arnie. I think Ronnie DeFao was a drug addict and was on drugs and killed his family. I agree. 267 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:14,960 I'm not saying that there wasn't any paranormal activity, but they didn't say that anyone else in 268 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:23,920 his family was reporting that kind of activity so if we're talking about native land maybe there 269 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:31,520 was paranormal activity but no one else in his house really talked about it. But also on the flipside 270 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:37,360 of that, why would they? You know so maybe they were hearing things and maybe they were hearing voices 271 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:44,640 and banging and all that as well. He's the only one who said that that stuff was going on. Now 272 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:51,600 when you're on LSD and you're on heroin and you're doing speed you can hear those things in your 273 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:59,520 mind and they're not happening so I feel like for him and this first half of this story which is 274 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:08,720 the Defeo’s. I think he was on drugs and killed his family and that's that. I agree 100%. I do not think 275 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:19,120 we jump into a paranormal paranormal aspect of it until we go to possibly the Lutz moving in. 276 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:28,880 That's just my opinion. I really truly believe that possibly Ronnie had some sort of maybe mental. 277 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:38,880 I don't maybe schizophrenia maybe schizophrenia or something like that and then when you add 278 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:50,160 drug use you are going to get a heightened experience of whatever mental disease you are dealing 279 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:57,440 with, so I think that is probably why the murders occurred or maybe even if he wasn't schizophrenic 280 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:04,880 or didn't have any prior mental health issues maybe he had a drug-induced mental health episode, 281 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:10,960 something maybe? I don't know, just something about watching it and listening 282 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:18,080 kind of leads me to wonder or speculate if maybe, and I'm not a doctor so don't come at me I'm 283 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:27,360 just curious and wondering, if he possibly did not have a little bit of maybe later brought on 284 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:34,720 schizophrenia from possibly drugs maybe drug-induced schizophrenia I guess that's how you 285 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:41,040 would say it isn't it? Sure I'm not a doctor either but sure we'll go with that. Yeah I'm definitely 286 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:48,000 not a doctor you can hear me talking realize that. I don't know it just seems like all of this was 287 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:56,880 probably caused by drugs and Ronnie or Ronald Sr. would have been better off if he would have just 288 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:07,520 not went and got Ronnie, saved his money. I feel very strongly that he was only having issues 289 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:15,280 with his dad so why did he kill everybody else? It had to be the drugs or a mental health issue 290 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:21,280 because why would he kill it? It said he loved his mom, very much and they were close and he had been 291 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:27,360 it said it in the documentary protective over his siblings when his dad would go into violent 292 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:34,400 rages, so it doesn't make sense to me that he killed his mom and his siblings as well that's another 293 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:44,320 reason why I put a check in the mental/health drug column. I agree, could what have happened from 294 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:52,000 what transpired in that house the murders could that have caused you have Native American 295 00:36:52,000 --> 00:37:01,440 land, you have what do you know that that Native American tribe of that location believed to have 296 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:08,080 happened there. Could something of that nature happen? Just so negative, so evil could that 297 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:16,400 have brought on paranormal activity to that home? It very well could have. I do also have questions 298 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:24,400 about why has nobody else experienced anything. We can also go back to sometimes you can put 20 people 299 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:32,240 in a room have a paranormal experience happen you know it happened and only one person actually 300 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:39,520 experienced it, or either a handful not everybody in the room. Could it go that way too possibly 301 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:47,440 there's just so many different ways? I also feel like everything in this documentary kept saying 302 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:54,240 this isn't documented we don't have proof, so it's just hard to know anything with this story. I agree 303 00:37:54,240 --> 00:38:03,280 and to me when you leave we're just going to forget that any of that property or any of the 304 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:10,800 items inside of the home was the Defeo’s, we're going to forget that. But anytime that you can leave your 305 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:17,120 home and leave all of your possessions, and only leave with a little bit of amount not even the 306 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:23,680 things that you need to live your daily life and not turn around or blink, that tells me something 307 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:31,280 serious happened. Right. I feel like then going into the Lutz is obviously you have all of their 308 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:40,720 possessions in the house there was a major murder incident with multiple people, if I'm going with 309 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:48,000 my gut my gut tells me the first half of this story which is the Defeo's was not anything to do with 310 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:57,520 paranormal. It was drugs and mental health. The Lutz is, I don't think it seems so far fetched for them to 311 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:05,440 move into a house and say oh we're going to concoct this whole story and then a movie is going to be 312 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:10,400 made and a book's going to get made. You can't predict that. Maybe no one would have paid attention to 313 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:17,920 you know so saying that the Lutz is premeditated and bought this house to come up with some scheme to 314 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:25,920 get rich seems really far fetched to me, unless it was set up already in the making for the movie and 315 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:31,840 the book deal before they bought it. There’s no way. I don't know, I mean I'm 316 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:37,440 just saying, I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just saying could that have happened I don't know 317 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:46,640 yeah but I think it's wild too. I can't leave this house right here and take a cedar box full of 318 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:55,920 pictures I couldn't do it right, see so I don't know that kind of makes me that makes me wonder that’s, 319 00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:05,440 yeah that's a lot of money and a lot of things to be replaced and you got $1,600 out of your home after 320 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:14,080 the bank sold it you put down what 20,000. Yep. Who walked away losing? It's a lot to lose, and did you 321 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,160 you probably know you're better about this thing than I am. How much did they make off these book deals 322 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:24,400 and stuff? I think they said it was oh shit I think it was a half a million dollars, which listen sure 323 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:32,160 is a lot of money but you pay taxes you pay lawyers I bet you it wasn't that much 20,000 dollars 324 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,960 and by the that still would have been more than $20,000 so they would have made their money back on the house 325 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:42,240 guaranteed. Yeah, they definitely made their money back, but again is it worth all the trouble? 326 00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:52,000 Is it worth a bet, also none of it was guaranteed. I can start beaten on the walls and running 327 00:40:52,000 --> 00:41:00,480 through this house and hope that somebody sees it, but it's more than 328 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:06,800 likely they're not going to. It's not gonna happen and the reporter, so when they had the reporters come, 329 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:14,400 the news and then the reporter was like oh the movie was scarier nothing happened he went in it with 330 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:21,680 an attitude like I do which is I'm a skeptic nothing's gonna happen the house makes noises 331 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:29,840 he went in bias. I will say that he definitely went in as a skeptic and I think that 332 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:36,640 influences what you hear and how you interpret it I don't know I want to say that there are 333 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:42,080 just so many different opinions from people who've been at the house that it's just hard to know 334 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:51,280 I'm not even going to look at the experience from the seance, because I know all too well you can go 335 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:57,360 to this place where you 100% know you're gonna have some amazing activity. You get there and there's 336 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:05,120 nothing, so I'm I'm not gonna even consider that as a possibility that they didn't have an experience. 337 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:11,600 Because I know that that doesn't necessarily say that it's not paranormal, but that was something good 338 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:20,080 to I guess look at. That's a good point, because let's go with its paranormal maybe whatever entity 339 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:26,960 or whatever is solely focused on George, wants George to kill his family like the Defeo family. 340 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:33,760 There was too many people there. Yep, too many people, other people that weren't the Lutz, and so 341 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:41,440 there was no activity. I mean yeah, I do think that that can possibly happen as well. Could 342 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:52,880 Lorraine or someone else that has been to that property possibly put enough of a rest to it to where 343 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:59,760 whatever it is has been buried or could possibly someone from that tribe, I don't know if anybody 344 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:06,880 has visited the land, a shaman to maybe do something to instill peace upon that property 345 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:13,200 you know, because the Native Americans did feel that there was something to that I don't know if it 346 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:18,000 was that just certain property or that road I think it was that it was that street wasn't it? Yeah, 347 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:23,600 you said straight and they said straight so I don't know if a shaman may be visited there and 348 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:30,560 did what they had to do to, maybe break the curse or their energy that could possibly have happened. 349 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:38,000 I don't know, so I mean I just don’t, I can’t. So the second half, the Lutz I'm gonna say 350 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:47,920 I am definitely more prone to believing them than obviously Ronnie Defeo, I feel the same as 351 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:55,920 Arnie you know I want to believe them, because I don't know why. I know people are saying it was for 352 00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:03,040 the money, but I don't know why you would risk all that for possibly getting some money, and I mean 353 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:10,800 we're all guilty of somebody saying this happened to them and it was paranormal and thinking they 354 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:20,800 didn't know why that could have happened. But if you have an entity or spirit or whatever 355 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:28,400 with enough energy, you might be surprised in some of the things they can do, so we don't know 356 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:37,600 if maybe there was enough energy for a entity to feed off of while the Lutz were living there or 357 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:44,160 what it was even feeding off of. So I can't say, well let's just say this, all I can say is anything's 358 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:52,800 possible. Yeah, and our next segment for this trio is gonna be with Sean Austin who's a paranormal 359 00:44:52,800 --> 00:45:00,640 investigator and he's investigated that area I'm really excited to talk to him. I haven't watched 360 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:08,400 his documentary yet so the whole concept that he has and what he believes and everything will be 361 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:16,560 completely new to me, so I can't wait to have him on and just hear the things that he got in that area. 362 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:23,680 I agree you can look at this case so many different ways, I just personally do not believe when you go 363 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:33,280 to the Defeo murders, that it was paranormal. I just believe you had a troubled individual, who 364 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:41,760 just did a tad too many drugs, just enough to push him over that edge. Yeah and the Kaplan so, 365 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:52,240 I just want to say I think it was Stephen and Roxanne Kaplan, they just every time they came 366 00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:59,520 on they rubbed me the wrong way. They were so insistent and negative, like your paranormal 367 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:09,760 researchers you should be a little more open, that's my opinion on that. Right, because we are 368 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:19,840 saying that we believe in something that we do not understand, so who's to say that what we believe 369 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:27,920 in isn't capable of this or capable of that. I can’t, I can't say that. Maybe I haven't experienced 370 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:34,400 that, but I can't say that it's not impossible. I have experienced some pretty incredible 371 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:42,240 things before. But there are attitudes and the way they were just digging in each time that they 372 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:48,080 were on screen of these people are liars, these people are making this up. I don't know, it just turned 373 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:56,000 me off. That's all I get it, it lead me towards being non skeptical. jJust kidding I don’t, I just couldn't 374 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:04,400 go on TV and be like that, because if they are okay. It's fine to be skeptical, and it's fine to 375 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:14,800 debate someone, but to be so ugly about it. Yes, exactly. Be kind guys, there's so much 376 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:21,120 ugliness and negativity in this world. We need more love and compassion. Yeah and you know 377 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:30,400 me as a skeptic, every time we talk, I'm open to other ideas. I'm not like, no this is not real. I'm a 378 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:40,080 skeptic. You've never told me I was crazy. No, I would never just everyone be open to whatever you know 379 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:47,760 absolutely we're not negative Nancy's over here. No, we are not. Anything we missed? I guess that was it. 380 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:55,120 Okay, next time we'll cover paranormal with Sean Austin. And then obviously, we're gonna cover 381 00:47:55,120 --> 00:48:01,200 the movies. I think we're gonna do another comparison of the original versus the remake. 382 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:11,920 Why not. Well, we'll meet back here in a week. Bye. See you then 383 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:17,520 Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us. keep on the lookout for our next episode 384 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:24,800 and stay gruesome.