1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,680 [Music] 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome to me, where we talk about movies and shows that cover true crime, paranormal, and horror. 3 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:27,920 I am one of your hosts, Dawn. I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I'm pretty well versed in the horror genre, 4 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:35,360 especially those 80s classics. A quick fun fact about me? I have a very extensive crystal collection. 5 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:43,920 Hello, I'm Amy. I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal. A few fun facts about me. 6 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:50,240 I'm an empath, I collect old dolls, and you know, I've never flown on an airplane. Can you believe that? 7 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:55,920 Now Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime, so here we are. Talk Gruesome to me. 8 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:12,880 Hello, we are here and we're sticking with our trio and we are on the paranormal episode today and we're talking about one of the most infamous hauntings in American history at 112 Ocean Avenue. 9 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,760 Yep, we are back with another Amityville episode. 10 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:24,640 Yes, we are and this house it inspired tons of horror movies and started a cultural obsession. 11 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:30,800 They haven't really let people investigate there, so it was really hard for us to find something to cover. 12 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:37,840 We both watched the documentary My Amityville Horror. I watched the real Amityville Horror on YouTube, 13 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:44,000 and Dawn watched Jack Osborne's the most haunted episode with Cindy Kaza. 14 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:49,760 See, I usually would mess up her last name at this time, I just chose Cindy. Cindy Kaza. 15 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:55,280 That was on YouTube and I liked the show, we can talk about it at the end. 16 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:07,440 We talked about it in our last episode. This is one of the weirdest cases because of all the hoopla and maybe one of the most calculated 17 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:17,520 hoaxes, I don't know. It depends on who you ask, but today we are going to focus on the investigations, like Amy said. 18 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:25,040 They don't let people investigate here, so it was almost impossible to find paranormal episodes on this, 19 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:33,040 but we're going to talk about specifically the Hans Holzer one, which he was the OG Ghost Researcher, 20 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:41,120 but also this investigation happened I think a couple of years after the Lutz Is left the house. 21 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:51,360 Oh, definitely. Holzer's work at Amityville, it's intense, it's emotional, and honestly it's way more compelling than any of the other Hollywood stuff. 22 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:57,760 Right. So let's go back and set the stage. November 13th, 1974. 23 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:07,680 Ronald DeFoe Jr. murdered his parents, his four siblings. He shot them execution style. They were all in their beds, 24 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:16,800 sleeping. They were all found laying face down, so there were no struggles. He just killed them all. 25 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:25,280 This part I always found odd. There were never any gunshots heard anywhere. No one reported it. The neighbors said 26 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:32,160 they didn't hear anything. It's a little weird. It's very weird, and that's where the weirdness starts. 27 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:41,280 DeFoe later claimed that he was possessed or driven by voices in the house. That, I mean, yeah, that was a lot. 28 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:48,240 He, I believe he really felt like he was hearing stuff, and that's not something the court focused on, 29 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:54,720 but it did linger within the public. Then a year later, George and Kathy Lutz move in with their kids. 30 00:03:54,720 --> 00:04:02,000 That didn't last long. It lasted a whole 28 days. They left in the middle of the night. 31 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:09,280 They left all of their stuff, and they say all this crazy stuff happened, right? Levitating beds. 32 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:16,640 They said that there was green slime dripping from the walls, cold spots. George woke up every night at 3.15am, 33 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:24,160 which was, I guess, the time that the murders happened. Both of them, George and I think Danny said that 34 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:32,560 they would see a pig demon, and I guess they named it Jodie. Their daughter said that she would see this 35 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:39,760 pig creature, but not in a scary way from what I heard. It was more like, oh, there's a pig here. 36 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:49,200 Not in a scary way. I mean, if I'm just sitting here and all of a sudden, there's a pig to me. That's 37 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:59,040 gonna be strange. Well, yeah, the way they covered it was, oh yeah, and then the daughter was like, 38 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:04,080 oh, there's a pig here. So I don't know. Maybe it was scarier than that. They just didn't make it sound. 39 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:10,320 What was the pig when we were little? He had the overhals on, and I'm seeing him at overhals and a hat. 40 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:17,040 I don't know, but that's just what I'm picturing. What would I love to know exactly what this pig 41 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:23,040 looked like? Because to not be scary, I don't think she wants to talk about this at all. Yeah, that's, 42 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:28,720 I don't know. I would think that it would be terrifying. Right? So that's just what really gets me 43 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:36,000 when you say it wasn't scary. I think any, you know, any most, most children would be terrified, 44 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:42,160 but I don't know. Maybe it was just comforting presence in the least. Here's where it gets interesting, 45 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:48,560 and that's when Hans Holzer enters. He's an historian, an author, and a paranormal investigator. 46 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,920 He visited the Amityville House in 1977, and that's about two years after the Lutz fled. 47 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:04,720 And Holzer wasn't just some dude. Like he, he was a seasoned ghost investigator. He had degrees 48 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:14,000 in religion and parapsychology. What he says seems like it should be legit, and I don't know. He 49 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:20,720 didn't go alone. He also brought a medium that he used. If you watch to the Holzer files, she was on 50 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:28,720 there pretty consistently. Her name is Ethel Johnson Mayors. They call her a trance medium. I'm going to 51 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:36,160 be honest, because I always am. But whenever I see her on Holzer files, it's just weird, because the way 52 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:45,120 that I guess the trance medium works is she goes into a transce and then sort of channels people, 53 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:52,800 then she says things from their perspective. I don't know. It's just weird, and the voices that she 54 00:06:52,800 --> 00:07:00,880 uses, it's just kind of different. That's all. I like it. There's just something about watching, 55 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:10,640 especially the Holzer files. I love that show. Yes, love. Yeah, me too. I don't know. I guess her voice, 56 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:16,720 when they do it in the beginning, and explain to what's going on, it just kind of adds. I don't know. 57 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:24,160 I just do. I love that show anyways. But according to Holzer, the house was built on an ancient Native American 58 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:31,920 burial site. The spirit, Ethel channeled. He was a Native American and was angry that his land was 59 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:38,960 being disturbed. And yeah, that happens. A lot of times we hear of bad cases coming from things like 60 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:45,920 that and from Native American land. Especially in that area. A quote from him was when I stepped 61 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:53,520 into the house. I knew immediately that there was a presence, but it wasn't demonic. It was restless. 62 00:07:53,520 --> 00:08:00,560 I believed it was tied to the land, not the Defeo all murders. So that's from Holzer from his 63 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:08,800 investigation. To sort of go, I don't know, combat that or argue that there is zero evidence that 64 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:15,840 there was a Native burial site ever documented on that property. So just to kind of, we're always 65 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:23,440 going to be honest. So he said that the spirits were angry, but not evil. Even if Ronald 66 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:31,280 DeFao Jr. was possessed when he killed his family, not mentally ill. And that's kind of where 67 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:39,120 he lost a lot of people, including other investigators, just saying that he believed Ronnie was possessed. 68 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:45,040 I don't know. We covered this in the True Crime episode. I don't believe that, but this guy 69 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:52,800 seasoned. Yeah. And we've also ran into and we covered another case where that was actually used. 70 00:08:52,800 --> 00:09:00,080 The devil made me do it, Trial. Oh yeah. With Arnie. So which was before? I don't know. They might have 71 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:05,280 been similar times. I don't know. I'm not sure either. Yeah, I was just kind of wondering because 72 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:12,080 that's like two cases probably fairly close to each other. So maybe they thought one or the other 73 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:17,600 was feeding off of it. I don't know, but holds her. Now he believed the murders were triggered by 74 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:24,240 spiritual unrest from before the house was even built, not a demon in the basement, more like a 75 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:30,720 generational trauma soaked into the ground. We're not going to go in depth, but Ed and Lorraine Warren 76 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:39,520 also investigated here. Holzers's version is completely opposite of Ed and Lorraine's investigation. 77 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:47,840 So they said that the house had demonic energy. Holzers said no demons. So I don't know. They're 78 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:54,800 conflicting. Yeah. There's even footage of Lorraine Warren saying that she felt a presence of pure 79 00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:01,520 evil in the sewing room. Lorraine, I felt this darkness. This is what she said. I felt this darkness 80 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:07,280 like something wanted us out. It didn't feel human. I don't know. So we have like dueling ghost 81 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:14,560 investigators. One says demon. One says native spirit. Two well known and respected. 82 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:20,240 Meanwhile, when we talked about this in the previous episode, the true crime one, 83 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:27,520 that guy Steven Caplan who drove me insane just and he's a parapsychologist as well. He did his own 84 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:34,560 investigation and said that they made it all up and I don't know. He was just so pushy and I don't 85 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:40,320 know. I didn't like that guy, but that's a whole separate conversation that we already had. Yeah. 86 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:47,200 Now except Hans Holzer, he never backed down. He stood by his findings until he passed in 2009. 87 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:53,920 He even wrote multiple books on the case, including Murder in Amityville, which influenced the movie 88 00:10:53,920 --> 00:11:01,680 the Amityville Horror 2. So let's talk about one thing specifically that happened. And this was 89 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:09,040 during the Warren's investigation. You saw it. I assume. So there was a picture of a little boy 90 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:16,640 upstairs. They call it the ghost boy photo. It's a child peaking around a door frame. He has glowing 91 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:22,640 eyes. He's kind of behind on you know, you can see the staircase in front of him. He's looking and 92 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:29,840 I've seen a side by side of John. The hair is similar. I don't know that anything else is really 93 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:37,280 similar. I don't know. What do you think? I don't know. I want the investigator in me 94 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:47,280 wants to believe that maybe possibly it was John and he was just there like, hey guys, what are you 95 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:52,320 doing? It's okay. I'm all right. I don't know. That's just what I want to believe. You know, some 96 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,440 believe it's the ghost of John DeFeo and others of course you know there's always going to be 97 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:03,440 others. They say it was just a crew member accidentally captured in the film. And I feel like 98 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:10,480 this was in the 70s, the late 70s and there wasn't Photoshop or anything like that. So no one knows. 99 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:18,400 There wasn't supposed to be children there right? No, there were no kids there at the time. I don't 100 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:24,720 know. I don't know. Whether it's real or not, I don't know. Yeah, same. I will say this since the 101 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:31,360 Lutz is left the home. There have been several families that have lived there. No one else has 102 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:39,040 reported activity. So that's also a little bit of an interesting thing. And Jim and Barbara 103 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:46,400 Chromarty, I think they moved in shortly after this photo was taken by, there was a news crew at the 104 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:53,120 time too, I think. They've lived there for years with nothing. She said, this is a quote from her, 105 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,800 there's no ghosts, no blood, no slime, just a lot of people taking pictures of our house. 106 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:07,680 But you got to expect that nearly. Yeah, of course. But in 2012, the story took a new turn. 107 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:14,800 Danny Lutz, the Lutz's eldest son broke his silence in the documentary My Amityville Horror. He was 108 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:22,400 visibly emotional, angry and convinced that something was real. Danny Lutz from the documentary, 109 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:29,280 this is what he said, 'you don't live through that and come out normal. I was a kid and no one 110 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:36,000 protected me.' And Dawn and I actually did speak about like living through something like this, 111 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:43,760 being a child at the time, whether any of this was staged or it was really happening, that's a lot 112 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:51,840 to live through. He basically backs up everything and he says that objects were moving on their own. 113 00:13:51,840 --> 00:14:00,480 He said he levitated off his bed. He also said, and I feel like this part wasn't in 114 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:08,080 what we watched for True Crime. He said that George Lutz was obsessed by the occult and he specifically 115 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:17,120 said he had certain books at his house. I don't know. I mean, I guess having those kinds of books 116 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:23,680 doesn't necessarily mean you're into the occult. A lot of people are into religion in general and that 117 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:30,800 includes this type of stuff. So I don't know, but he thinks that George might have invited something 118 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:38,640 into the house. Is it just me not remembering? But did they never speak about him having the 119 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:47,280 interest in levitation and anything like that? I don't remember them speaking of the father or the 120 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:54,320 stepfather, whatever father, whatever. I never remembered hearing that. Did you? I kind of felt that 121 00:14:54,320 --> 00:15:00,720 everything. No, it's new when we watched that documentary. I didn't know any of that. I didn't even 122 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,920 really realize that he had these types of books around until I watched that. Right. Yeah, I mean, 123 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:11,120 that's really that kind of put another view that we hadn't seen before because I didn't 124 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,400 couldn't remember personally hearing about that. And of course, we're going to talk about Danny's 125 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:23,600 body language. He's haunted, not by ghost, maybe by trauma, but he believes something happened in 126 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:32,240 that home, whether it was paranormal or psychological, he knows that he lived it. He did also say, and this 127 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:40,480 was sort of newer information as well, that George was abusive. He said that he was controlling. I mean, 128 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:50,160 let's be honest, that is traumatic, especially at that age and who knows what that does to a kid's brain. 129 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:58,080 On the flip side of that, what did he really have to gain by coming out and talking about this? 130 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:08,080 I feel like if anything, and George has passed away, no, I feel like if anything, because of his 131 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:15,440 obvious hatred towards him as seen in the documentary, I'm not just saying that on my own, but I think 132 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:23,200 that if anything, he would have said no, he's a liar. Right. I don't know. Yeah, I just don't. 133 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:31,200 And then also like, he didn't come out when he was 17 or 18 trying to make money off the story, 134 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:37,680 either. I'm looking at that as well. How many years has it been? I mean, it's been years upon years, 135 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:47,440 and maybe he's just wanting to tell a story now. I don't know. Yeah. He was definitely interesting. You 136 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:55,120 can tell that he does have a lot of trauma. He has a lot of probably mental health things going on 137 00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:02,320 from just from what I observed watching the documentary. I feel like also since he didn't change his name, 138 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:09,200 this probably comes up all the time. Like there's just no getting away from it because that's his 139 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:14,640 last name. And so I'm sure people, if he's still living in the area and that's his last name, 140 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:21,440 I'm sure people ask him about it all the time. Guaranteed. But I like I'm going to I'm going to go back 141 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:30,000 to the documentary when I was watching him and observing his actions, listening to him, that emotion 142 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:37,840 it didn't it didn't feel fake to me. So if it is then good job, but it just didn't feel fake. Yeah, 143 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:43,520 you're a really good actor. Yeah. I mean, it really seemed like it really messed with him. 144 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:50,800 Like I said, not this same genuine. It does seem genuine of the two of us. I'm the skeptical 145 00:17:50,800 --> 00:18:00,240 one. So some of it is just outlandish just to be honest, saying that your bed came up so far to 146 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,880 the ceiling that it poked holes in the ceiling and saying green slime is coming out of the wall. Listen, 147 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:15,840 I wasn't there. I don't know. Maybe it happened. It just seems so far fetched. Then it makes me think 148 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:24,880 does the trauma of the abuse and what was going on the house make someone. I'm not saying he's lying, 149 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:31,200 but does it make someone genuinely think that this stuff happened? Possibly. Not that he's lying. Yeah. 150 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:40,000 I don't think he is. No, we're just looking at other ways that you could look at it like we always do. 151 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:48,880 He just seemed really disturbed and I felt for him. Same. Yeah. And whether it did happen or whether 152 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:56,240 it manifested because of what was going on and family trauma that was happening, if you watch it and 153 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:03,120 I recommend you watch it. I watched it on YouTube, but I don't know where you watched it. Same. Okay. My 154 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:10,640 Amityville Horror is the name of it. I highly recommend it. And there were some things like 15 minutes, 155 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:18,400 maybe 20 minutes in. I don't remember. I texted Amy. I was like, this is crazy. And then when so he 156 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:25,840 went and visited Lorraine Warren and hadn't seen her since he was like 10 or something. And that 157 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:34,560 whole scene sitting at the table with them talking to who I think was probably a cameraman or a producer 158 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:44,240 or something was so weird. And I texted Amy. I'm like, this scene at the Warren's is bizarre. Like, 159 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:51,920 I don't know what's happening here. So and I don't want to ruin it for people. If you're interested in 160 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:59,200 Amityville at all and you haven't seen this, you should watch it because he was there. Oh, anytime 161 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:08,400 if it's a case and there is a book or a movie or a podcast in my own words, me telling my story, 162 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:14,880 you best believe that I want to listen to it because that's where you're going to actually get to 163 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:22,880 know the person that this happened to now of some here and there may not tell the truth, but you still 164 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:29,440 get a sense of their personality and how they are. So yeah, always want to listen or watch to that 165 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:35,680 stuff. And you know what's weird? I didn't even know that this was out there. I had no idea that he 166 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:44,240 had done any types of interviews or anything until I heard Jack Osborne and Cindy Kaza say, oh, 167 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:50,320 and Danny Lutz did an interview and I was like, wait, what? And then I went and found this 168 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,560 documentary and that's when I texted you. I'm like, oh my god, we have to watch this. Well, I watched 169 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:59,760 the most part of it and I don't remember. I don't remember exactly what part I got to, but I was like, 170 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:07,360 I've already watched this. I don't know. It was some part after he had already got with Lorraine, 171 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:13,440 so I don't know if maybe I was doing something around the house and Shannon was watching it and I 172 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:20,240 caught the tail in, but I remembered at that point. So now I've just seen it all. I had no idea that he 173 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:26,720 did this. So I'm glad that Jack and Cindy said that because then it led me to this and just being 174 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:32,960 interested in the story in general is definitely something that I would have wanted to watch. I don't know 175 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:41,920 why being as big of a story as it is in America for how long now over 40 years, you would think that 176 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:48,960 I would have heard about it, but I had no idea. I was completely, I guess, in awe with this story 177 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:57,040 when I was little because I was thinking this can happen and it doesn't matter. Well, back then I'm 178 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:05,120 going to say it didn't matter where you were. You knew or heard of the Amityville House. It's kind of 179 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:11,520 died down through the year or so, but back when I was in the late 80s and the early 90s, this was talked 180 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:17,840 about a lot. Don't you remember it  being a nearly weekly occurrence of some I've spoken about 181 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:24,000 or you see in something on TV or the movies at the where you would rent. It was always like it was 182 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:29,440 there. Yeah, I mean, this stuff happens every day now. So back then it wasn't as prevalent, you know. 183 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:35,360 True, true, true. I guess times have changed and this was something horrible that happened back then 184 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:45,840 and now we get up sadly every morning and I get my cup of coffee, I turn the TV on and I hear that 185 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:53,680 someone somewhere has hurt people or yeah, so I mean it's just different times. I forgot to say in the 186 00:22:53,680 --> 00:23:03,360 beginning when we did the previous episode for True Crime, we had said that we were going to cover 187 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:11,360 a different paranormal episode and have Sean Austin on the podcast. He got really busy. He had 188 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:19,760 some personal things happen. He has an app that he's working on fine tuning and getting on Android 189 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:27,520 because it's up on iOS. So anyways, he just couldn't squeeze in the time which is fine. So if anyone 190 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,640 heard this and then they're like, wait, this isn't what they said they were doing. That was why I 191 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:39,440 forgot to say that in the beginning. Let's just say that maybe he can be a guest later on because 192 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:44,960 by that time he's going to have done all kinds of stuff and can really get on here and talk about it. 193 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,520 Oh, for sure. Yeah. He can come on anytime. So most definitely it's not. Okay, 194 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,560 it's not cancel today's episode of him being on there. It's not canceled. It's just postponed. 195 00:23:54,560 --> 00:24:03,520 There you go. Love that. I don't know. Do we want to talk more about that particular documentary? Do 196 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,880 we do you want to talk about what you watched which was the real amity of it? Oh, 197 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:14,640 sure. You said it was really good. It was really good. Yeah, I mean basically they just went through 198 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:20,880 and told the story. They went a little more. And we both talked about how it was so hard to find 199 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:27,600 something paranormal driven and it really is. But with this one, they kind of went a little bit more 200 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:35,120 into speaking about some of the things that happened paranormal. They didn't necessarily deep 201 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:41,680 dive as much as he did. Not at all. But yeah, I was just a little look into the things like the 202 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:48,080 flies. They did not mention any slime. They spoke about Ed and Lorraine coming and going. 203 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,920 And then about the say-offs that was really big and talked about the one lady with the long 204 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:59,360 dark hair. What was her name? She worked for, the journalist. I don't know. She was in the second one. 205 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:05,360 But she had made good friends with him as a child. And remember she goes back and and sets with him. 206 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:12,960 She was in that documentary as well. So it was kind of like when she was on. It was the same, just the same 207 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:19,840 just. I feel so bad. I don't remember her name. But she, so she was in this documentary with Danny Lutz. 208 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:26,000 In the beginning, she explained that the Lutz's didn't want to talk to media. They wanted to be left 209 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:32,640 alone. They didn't want to be interviewed. Nothing. They were adamant that they just wanted to break 210 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,920 away from this whole thing when they moved to California. This woman had reached out to them. 211 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:45,440 They ended up building a trusting relationship with her. And she did interview them. And she 212 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:53,600 had notes and notes and notes and tons of stuff from them. And so Danny had her be the one who was 213 00:25:53,600 --> 00:26:00,720 interviewing him on My Amityville Horror. And the thing I liked about her, she did ask him a 214 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:07,760 couple of challenging questions of like, but what about this? They trusted her, but she wasn't 215 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:14,080 totally just like, oh yeah, okay, I believe you. They felt comfortable with her. And knew that she 216 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:23,680 wasn't mocking them maybe, per se. Here she is. And haven't we spoke about her before? Laura Didio? 217 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:32,960 Oh yeah, that's her. Didio. Yeah, that's her. And this was her when I'm assuming she was working back with 218 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,480 them on that case. So yeah, if you're on watching on YouTube, I just showed a picture of her, but yeah, 219 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:43,520 I wanted to go and get her name because here we are speaking about her and we don't have her name. And 220 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:51,040 she seems like lovely. I love how she handled it all. Yeah, I like her. I watched the, what was it 221 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:56,560 called? Jack Osborne is the most haunted and was it any different? Because everything I was seeing, 222 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:02,800 it's all just the same. It's a podcast, I think, but I watched it on YouTube. It was just him and 223 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:09,600 Cindy talking like you and I. And honestly, watching that whole episode, it was funny because it's 224 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:17,520 very similar to our banter and at the end they do the same thing. So what do you think? It was 225 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:24,400 just funny. I was like, this is so similar to what we do. I love it. They think similarly to us, 226 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:30,960 they talk things through. They don't say like, no, absolutely not. That didn't happen. They just say, 227 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:39,120 I wasn't there. I don't know. The way that they think is similar. I had never watched his show before, 228 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:44,800 his, I guess I would call it a video podcast. It was interesting to listen to them. I love Cindy 229 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:52,960 Kaza a lot. I've seen her live once. My sister has seen her live in Toledo. She's, I don't know, 230 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:59,280 she's from Toledo, but she has a large amount of family in Toledo. So she does live shows there 231 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:06,160 regularly, which is funny. I love her. I will watch anything she's in. So I definitely liked that 232 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:13,120 episode. And if you like a podcast like this, Jack Osborne's The Most Haunted recommend from that 233 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:20,480 one episode that I saw. I was it sure about Jack when he started doing the paranormal investigate 234 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,920 and stuff. I was like, man, you don't seem to know much and you seem kind of scared. But I'm going to 235 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:31,680 give him props. I've seen some lighter stuff and he's really like, he's got a lot better. He grew 236 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,400 on me for sure. I thought the same thing in the beginning. I was like, oh, that doesn't match. 237 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,800 But yeah, it's it's good. And especially when he was with Katrina, I was like, well, 238 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:48,960 Katrina go in there. You know, where I end to it. Katrina  has a show with the Ghost Brothers 239 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:57,520 who I love. It's hilarious. They show clips that users send in and they analyze them. And it's 240 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,000 actually really funny. I don't remember what I have. I haven't seen that. Cool. Oh my gosh, 241 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,200 it's hilarious. You have to find it. So it's Jack and the Ghost Brothers. Okay. Yeah. I'll have to 242 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:13,680 check that out. All right. We're two two episodes in now. And the next one will be horror. So it 243 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:21,120 doesn't it's not really it's sensationalized. So we're two episodes in. 244 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:28,080 There's a ton of movies. I don't know how many that claim it's a haunting. You have the 245 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:35,840 parapsychologist, Hans Holzer saying, nope, it's a sacred land, native thing. And then this kid, Danny 246 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:41,600 Lutz, grows up, confirms it all and says the whole thing ruined his life. What do you what do you 247 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:49,600 think in here? Was it a demonic force? Angry spirits or just deep human pain and fear? 248 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:57,120 Holzer tried to answer that but maybe some truth can't be captured in a book or a movie or 249 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:05,680 here we are a podcast. What do I think about that? I agree with Jack and Cindy. I wasn't there. 250 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:14,880 I do probably and my personal like just what I think don't believe that the Defeo murders was 251 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:24,800 caused by spirits of any sort. I do think however that what happened there could have possibly 252 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:34,480 caused some sort of activity. But what happened to it? Why did it leave? Why has no one ever since 253 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:40,560 had any activity then? I can't answer that. I don't know. And they don't ever talk about, 254 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,960 no one has ever said that they did a house cleansing or anything like that. That would be, I mean, 255 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:50,720 maybe they did. I don't know. Maybe Lorraine went in there and done something. I don't know. 256 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:56,560 But I think if we're gonna say anything was paranormal about this, it's gonna have to be after 257 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:06,320 the murders. I agree. I still think it's so bizarre that they left all of the furniture in the house 258 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:14,320 and they were just like, sure we'll take the murder beds. What? No. Do not take murder beds people. 259 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:21,280 Don't take a murdered person's silverware. I don't know. Yeah, it's just not cool. Don't leave it all 260 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:29,840 in there. No. You and I are on the same page. I think the Defeo murders were drugs and mental health 261 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:38,160 issues. But then you have six people die including four kids that could stir up some activity and then 262 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:49,600 you have George Lutz who maybe was into some type of a cult stuff. Just going out on a limb here. 263 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:56,880 And these are just theories, everybody. So what if his being abusive and controlling was something 264 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:05,440 attached to him? Who knows? This is just a theory. That could have come into a situation where 265 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:13,920 there was already negative things going on because of the six murders. And then he comes in with an 266 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:20,800 attachment and it all just stirs the whole thing up even more and then you start having crazy activity 267 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:31,120 possible. Do you not think it's kind of weird? How Lutz resembles Defeo? Yeah. Although I think it's weird. 268 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:39,200 Maybe if he didn't have the beard and similar hair. You know what I mean? Yeah. But they are so similar. 269 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:48,240 It's almost freaking creepy. At the time. Yeah. Because he had the same facial hair and the hair. Yes. 270 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:54,560 Yeah. Like you said, take the facial hair off or whatever they probably wouldn't. But with it 271 00:32:54,560 --> 00:33:02,880 and at that time, yeah. That was creepy. Look just so much alike. So if Hans Holzer was right and it's 272 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:11,760 native, there's something to do with the land, not the actual people. I just don't know because 273 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:20,800 then wouldn't it have continued? I don't know. I'm so confused. I don't know what to think. I don't 274 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:30,880 know either. And also if it's native, that's just so specific to a community that I never feel 275 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:36,000 comfortable speaking on it because I don't know enough about it and I have no native in me. So 276 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:43,520 I just always am like, okay, this is what I heard. I don't know how you handle it or what to do about 277 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:50,800 it if that's the case. Shaman. But the activity. Or elder. Stopped anyways. Yeah. I don't know. I can't 278 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:59,120 answer that one. I wish someone had said if the Lorraine and Ed Warren group or whoever was there 279 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,120 because there were quite a few people there. If someone did a cleansing, I wish they had said that. 280 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,640 And maybe they did and we just didn't hear it anywhere. I don't know. It's just very confusing 281 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:14,240 why the activity stopped. That's all. I don't know if maybe they could. They possibly could have 282 00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:23,040 done something to clear for any future. But like you said, I don't know. And I will say that I know 283 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:30,080 he's not here, but Sean's investigation, he investigated outside of the house because they don't 284 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:37,440 let people investigate there. He got activities and he's also very seasoned. He's been doing this over 285 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:46,640 15 years. I trust him. I know he's real and I know he has the right intentions with everything that 286 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:52,560 he does in the field. We got to get him on here when he gets a little bit of a break, but he drives 287 00:34:53,200 --> 00:35:01,120 he investigates constant. He's always driving 10 hours, six hours. Like he's never home, hardly ever. So 288 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:07,520 we'll get a slot one day. Here’s crossing our fingers. It's hard. It's almost like you have to pick a 289 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:14,560 team was Hans Holzer or were the Warrens, right? No, no, no. And I'll say it again. I don't need that. 290 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:21,600 I guess ratings. The My Amityville Horror, which is the one with Danny, I'm just going to go 291 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:26,640 nine. If you're interested in this story, you got to watch it. It's well done. I'm going to go nine. 292 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:32,640 I'm going to go 10 because you said if you're interested in this case, anything about it, 293 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:41,600 why not go watch someone who actually was right inside of it who lived this life? So 10, go watch it. 294 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:49,520 And then the Jack Osborne, I guess, podcast. Again, I watched it on YouTube. So I think it's like a 295 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,760 video podcast, but maybe they put it out audio only as well. I lost the name in my papers, but that's okay. 296 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:02,080 So Jack Osborne's, I think it was called the most haunted. I love Cindy. Like I said, I 297 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:08,880 Jack has grown on me. And the funny thing is with Jack, you know, they had that show The Osborne's 298 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:17,680 back in the day. At that time, Jack and Kelly were teenagers. I was at The Rainbow on Sunset. All the time, 299 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:25,440 it's a restaurant bar. It's quite famous out here in Los Angeles. Guns and Roses filmed a video there. 300 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:32,800 It's known as like a rocker hangout basically. And Jack used to hang out with us and he was a teenage, 301 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:41,440 like not 19, like a teenage or like 15, 16. And it always made me uncomfortable, you know, but 302 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:48,240 he's Ozzy's kid. Like you're not going to say this makes me uncomfortable. So it just was what it was. 303 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:54,640 Well, he obviously turned out all right. Oh, yeah, for sure. From the one episode I listened to, 304 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,680 I'm just going to say 9 out of 10 for that too. I, you know, I'm sure he has some great guests. 305 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,640 And I bet you they talk about great topics. I don't know. I'm only rating that one episode. 306 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:11,600 For mine, My Real Amityville Horror on YouTube, that was good. I'm going to give it a 9 because a lot of 307 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:18,560 times those little documentaries are hard to watch and hard to follow. Most definitely go watch them. 308 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,680 Let me go through these now that I found this. My Amityville Horror, Amy and I both watched on YouTube. 309 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:29,840 That's the one with Danny Lutz. I gave it 9. She gave it 10. Jack Osborne's The Most Haunted 310 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:37,200 episode. And it says Amityville in the title and it's with Cindy Kaza that I gave a 9 out of 10. 311 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:44,800 And then I watched that on YouTube. Amy watched The Real Amityville Horror on YouTube and gave that 312 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:50,800 a high score as well. Recommend them all if this story interests you. If not, you can just listen to 313 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:57,520 us babble and we'll be back with the horror portion. I'm trying to get a guest for that too, but we'll 314 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:02,080 see what happens. I don't want to say that this time because then if they can't fit it in their 315 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:10,320 busy schedule, I don't want to promote it. Hopefully it will get someone for the horror part. 316 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,680 And in between, we'll have a minisode and probably a true crime minisode. 317 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:21,520 Exciting. So all right, we'll meet back here in a week. Thanks everybody. Bye. 318 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,520 Bye. 319 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:31,920 Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us. Keep on the lookout for 320 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,280 our next episode and stay gruesome. 321 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,280 [Music]