1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,680 [Music] 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome to me, where we talk about movies and shows that cover true crime, paranormal and horror. 3 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:27,920 I am one of your hosts, Dawn. I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I'm pretty well versed in the horror genre, 4 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:35,360 especially those 80s classics. A quick fun fact about me? I have a very extensive crystal collection. 5 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:43,920 Hello, I'm Amy. I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal. A few fun facts about me. 6 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:50,240 I'm an empath, I collect old dolls and you know, I've never flown on an airplane. Can you believe that? 7 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:57,600 Now, Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime, so here we are. Talk Gruesome to me. 8 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:07,600 Welcome in for this episode. We are covering the Menendez Brothers case, which has had some action recently. 9 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:15,120 This story, if you don't know what it's about, there were two brothers. They were living in Beverly Hills. 10 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:25,600 They were wealthy and their parents, Jose and Kitty, Menendez, they were shot by the brothers one night while they were, 11 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:31,920 honestly, they were just chillin' watching TV in their living room. But you know, we'll get into that. 12 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:40,960 We'll get into the trials. We'll talk about where this case is now. There were some abuse claims that came out. 13 00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:48,640 We'll cover a couple of the shows that have documentaries and what I would consider more 14 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,800 show than documentaries, but in any case, we'll cover all of that. 15 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:58,240 And then where we're at now because there is some action coming up here in August. 16 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:08,960 Very soon. 2025. Yes. It's what's today. It's July 7th. So in like a month, let's get into this 17 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:17,680 August 20th, 1989. The two brothers, Lyle was the older brother. He was 21 and Eric was the younger brother. 18 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:25,760 He was 18. And like I said, their parents were Jose and Kitty. They were watching TV in their living room. 19 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:35,520 The boys came in and shot their parents. And Jose was shot six times. Kitty was shot more than six times. 20 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:42,960 I think 10 times. Yeah, they were just in the living room watching a movie, which I feel like comes 21 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:48,480 into play as probably for me one of the most controversial parts of the whole thing. 22 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:55,600 The boys had claimed that assassins killed their parents. You know, like I said, they were wealthy. So 23 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:02,640 they actually probably could have gotten away with that because they were well off. And their 24 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:11,760 dad was a pretty big deal in several different industries. Eric ended up confessing in October. So 25 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:19,760 a couple of months after the murderers, he had been seeing a psychologist come to find out in 26 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:27,040 a documentary that I watched. This was a psychologist that their dad actually hired. And not only did 27 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:35,280 their dad hire the psychologist, he got this psychologist to sign a waiver that anything that Eric told 28 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:44,560 him the psychologist could tell the dad. So this guy was not ethical, first of all. Eric sounded like 29 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:50,400 he was in such a place where he wanted to kill himself and just his brain was full of turmoil. 30 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:58,160 Even before the murders and then compiled with the murders, he just sounded like he was at his 31 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:05,040 withsend. So he went and told this doctor, Dr. Ozeal, what happened? The boys were the ones who killed 32 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:11,840 their parents. It wasn't even that Dr. Ozeal went and revealed this information because there is 33 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:20,080 confidentiality. Ozeal had told his mistress again, clearly not an upstanding. 34 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:28,800 Human or citizen, he was married and had a mistress. He told his mistress who got involved in 35 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:37,360 one of the sessions and recorded it. And then she went to the police and this is a total side part 36 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:45,120 of this story. She went to the police saying that Ozeal basically kidnapped her and raped her. 37 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:50,560 Oh, in the meantime, while we're going through this kidnapped and rape charges, 38 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:58,800 here's the tape, these boys confess to this murder. So there was a little bit or a lot of drama 39 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:05,760 even surrounding their psychologist and how this ended up getting communicated to the police. 40 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:14,080 Fast forward. That was a lot. They get through that. It was a lot. And then the boys were arrested. 41 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:21,120 Lyall was arrested on March 8th and Eric was arrested a couple of days later in 1990. So this was, 42 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:28,640 let's see, maybe sixish months after the murder. They did go on a spending spree. I'm not going to lie. 43 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:37,680 They were buying super expensive watches. One of them bought a fancy Porsche. Like they were out there 44 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:47,120 spending money. And when you would see them in videos and things like that, they for the most part 45 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:54,400 didn't look too upset when they were out there spending money. Yeah. I don't know what to say about that. 46 00:05:54,400 --> 00:06:00,400 There's a lot wrapped up into this case with the abuse that we'll talk about shortly. They do 47 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:06,400 genuinely and in some of these interviews, they do genuinely seem sad about what they did, 48 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:13,120 especially with their mom, they missed her or still miss her. I imagine and I'm speaking 49 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:19,120 for them. I don't know this. They didn't say this in anything that I've seen or read, but 50 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:26,400 there must have been some sense of relief that they weren't dealing with this abuse anymore. 51 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:34,080 I'm kind of torn on the whole, oh, they went out and spent all this money. They didn't look sad. 52 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:41,120 There's a lot going on mentally with what happened in this story. It's not just, uh, hey, 53 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:48,240 these kids wanted their inheritance and they killed their parents. There's so much more involved. So 54 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:56,320 I don't know, looking at them in the couple of months after, gosh, their emotions must have really just 55 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:05,520 been everywhere. That means that you said it right. They were just kids. I mean, it's still 21. Think 56 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:14,160 about some of the decisions that you made when it came to money or whatever. So I cannot, I can't 57 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:20,720 like comment on that. Yeah, I mean, it's a little suspect. I don't know what kind of mind frame 58 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:30,800 I would be in if I just done that. You know, yeah, I've never been in that situation. The reasoning being 59 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:41,040 the abuse, there has to be some sense of like liberation in what they did. And again, I'm not, I have 60 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:47,920 not seen that or read that anywhere. That's what I think. Almost like they broke free. Yes, exactly. 61 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:55,200 I was listening. I can't remember if it was a podcast or show I was listening to someone had said 62 00:07:55,200 --> 00:08:02,960 it was a gentleman. Think about the fact that here they are, they're broke free and it's like a whole new 63 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:15,200 life. You may think that's awful me to say, but I try in every judgment that I make of someone when 64 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:21,760 it comes to that is to put myself in there. Shoes. I don't know how to even start to begin with that one. 65 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:32,800 They're not the first high profile case where that person has been abused for years upon years by 66 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:39,440 whoever their parents or someone in charge of them and they turn around and they, they murder them. 67 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:45,760 The ones who have been putting the abuse on them. So I mean, it's just not the first time. No, and I think 68 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:51,440 that the whole deal with this case is that their wealth and there are these 69 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:58,480 Uber rich people living in this huge mansion in Beverly Hills. So I think that that did not help 70 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:08,000 their case. No. I also think the timing of it being right after the Rodney King, after that court case, 71 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:14,880 I think the city quickly knew that basically they messed up that verdict and they were going to make 72 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:23,920 sure that another high profile case wasn't going to go in the same direction. So the timing was 73 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:31,120 also bad for them. Yeah, they just, they bought back to the spin and they just bought so many things that 74 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:40,080 within that time frame of your parents just passing away. It is, it's, it's extremely suspect, but 75 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:48,400 I've also never lived anything close to their lifestyle either. I don't know what they were 76 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:57,200 used to spending daily. I mean, was that just like a little bit lavish for them? Because for me, 77 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:03,840 it's like totally off the top. Well, and a lot of people deal with grief by shopping. Yeah. So maybe 78 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:12,320 Rolexes and a Porsche are their version of you or I going to Amazon Primer Walmart. You know what I 79 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,960 mean? I mean, very true. Like I said, I've never lived like that, but they did. They had extravagant 80 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:27,200 lifestyles because their father was very well off. It's just it's so hard, especially when you know 81 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:36,320 that there is a chance that abuse is involved. I definitely feel bad for them and we'll talk about it 82 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,160 at the end. Oh, yeah, we will. And I mean, all that spending, it just led them straight into trial. 83 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:52,160 They were arrested and the two faced two tell, tell, tell a vision trials. The first one that ended 84 00:10:52,160 --> 00:11:00,240 in a hung jury and that was in 1994. The second one that was in 1996 and the conviction of first 85 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:07,680 degree murder and conspiracy is what they both got and they got life without parole. That was 86 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:17,360 too totally like that was just a complete change. But as we're going to talk about the trials were 87 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:22,720 handled a little different in what could be talked about. So could that be the reason why? 88 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:30,800 Now the first trial that was led by Leslie Abramson, the the defense represented the shocking 89 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:36,720 claim that the murders were not about money, not at all. It was just about years of abuse that was 90 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:44,560 sexual and emotional. They, according to the brothers, Jose Menendez, I'll about missed his name, 91 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:52,800 up Jose Menendez had been sexually abused in Eric and also Lyle for years. It was still 92 00:11:52,800 --> 00:12:03,200 supposedly going on with Eric up until the murders. Kitty Menendez, they portrayed her as pretty 93 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:11,040 most unemotionally stable and that she was just pretty much covering up the things that her husband 94 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:16,880 was doing. The brothers claimed that they feared that they were going to be killed by their parents 95 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:24,800 and that is while they did what they did. I guess you could say that maybe they wanted to 96 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:34,560 to their parents before their parents got to them. I mean in simpler terms, it's beyond anything 97 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:41,760 that I can understand. But trial two, that Judge Weissberg, he limited the testimony about abuse. 98 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:48,000 They wasn't able to talk about as much as they were in the first trial, ruling that it was a relevant 99 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:56,080 to the issue of premeditated murder. He did not allow most of the prior psychology testimony or 100 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:03,120 detailed abuse claims. He didn't want any of that coming because like I said, they, I'm going to, 101 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:09,440 well, I'm going to say I don't believe they believed them whatsoever. I have a couple things. 102 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:17,760 Number one, people in their immediate family came forward and said either they had 103 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:25,840 told me about this or I believe them. Or this was fishy or well, I didn't see that exactly, 104 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:34,960 but I do remember this. I guess when you talk about the brothers worrying about the parents coming 105 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:42,960 after them, I can see where someone like Jose would not want that secret exposed about him or his 106 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:50,240 family. I mean, just like he wanted to cover up in the beginning when they were faving and robbing. 107 00:13:50,240 --> 00:14:00,000 Yeah, but he, some of his family members came forward and said, oh, I saw him doing physical abuse, 108 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:07,360 not the sexual, but multiple people came forward and said, oh yeah, when one of the boys was two 109 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:15,600 years old, I saw him doing this. So he definitely did some of the other types of abuse in front of his 110 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:21,600 family members. Luckily, they came forward, but that was in the first trial. Right. And I mean, that was 111 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:29,360 if you don't even want to look at it sexually, you can talk about the emotional side of things that 112 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:37,600 family members heard and seen from him. But with them not allowing the sexual abuse allegations to be 113 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:44,240 talked about in the second trial, that really weakened the emotional defense. That was, yeah, 114 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:52,160 that just really kind of blew all of that out of the water. Now, the self-defense, again, 115 00:14:52,160 --> 00:15:00,800 this has never happened to me. If the things that were happening to them were happening to me, 116 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:07,040 I don't know what kind of mind state or what kind of thinking I would be in. 117 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:12,720 Yeah. And I think this is probably the right time to talk about what I meant earlier 118 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:18,480 with them coming in and shooting their parents while they're sitting on the couch watching TV. 119 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:26,800 I think that that's where the self-defense claim takes a little bit of a turn. Okay, 120 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:33,200 it's not like your dad was abusing you in the moment. It's not like you were standing there and he 121 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:40,080 was screaming at you. So I get that part of it. Yes. But from what the boys have said consistently, 122 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:46,960 this wasn't just one interview. This was consistent over all these years. They had had a discussion. 123 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:55,920 And Eric told Lyle that the abuse was still going on. And then that just put them in a panic and they 124 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:04,000 went and shot their parents while they were watching TV. Because they've both said their mom wasn't 125 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:10,560 helpful. They had told their mom multiple times, both of them. And she always brushed it off and said, 126 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:17,520 don't talk about that. Their mom was complicit, not helpful, back to the dad, basically. 127 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:24,480 That's another part of it. Why shoot your mom? I mean, that's why. Imagine this goes on 128 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:32,560 from the age of six to 18. That's 12 years. That's a long time to get your mind all screwed up. 129 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:42,000 In the most important time for your development of your mind, your body, who you are, that's, 130 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,280 that it's right there. That's the time. And you're being abused the whole time. 131 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:54,480 And it's not that Lyle wasn't abused emotionally or other ways. It's just 132 00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:01,840 Lyle's sexual abuse happened from six to eight from what he said in the trial. So his sexual 133 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:10,080 abuse wasn't going on for that 10, 12 years. However, all of the other abuse was going on, 134 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:18,320 which is enough to mess with your mind mentally. So when Eric went to Lyle that night and said, 135 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:27,120 hey, this is going on. I think it was just a snapping point and they both just were like, yes, 136 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:34,800 in a panic, he's going to kill us if we don't kill him. And that's what happened. There's a lot to be 137 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:41,520 said for what abuse of any kind does to your mind, especially like you said when you're in those 138 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:49,600 development years, you might have been Kitty who pulled off Lyle's wig in front of Eric, his hair piece. 139 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:58,720 I'm not sure that sounds like a Jose thing, but I'm not sure. How embarrassing and traumatizing is that 140 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:04,240 all of it? Because in the first place, you're already embarrassed because you're wearing that. 141 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:10,720 And you're able to hide it because it was a very well-made one. And then you're being exposed 142 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:16,080 in front of people that didn't know. Yeah, that's traumatizing at that age. And for people to say, 143 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:22,960 this is the other part. This was the the prosecutions whole thing was, oh, they wanted this 144 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:29,440 inheritance. I think it was $14 million. But they were already living large. It's not like they needed 145 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:37,120 that money. They were, you know what I mean? They were rich already. And let's, that did hear of talk of 146 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:44,400 their father change in the will. A family member said that he was or had already changed it. And 147 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:53,760 something else that I had listened to said that I think it was Lyle had possibly had someone that 148 00:18:53,760 --> 00:19:02,000 he knew go in and try to wipe that will out. But it's all hearsay. Yeah, I don't remember hearing that, 149 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:09,680 but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Right. I did find it interesting when I listened to 150 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:20,960 something today. And Lyle did admit that he was trying to pay his girlfriend and friends to 151 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:28,080 take up for him in court. That was interesting. But I get it too. You need witnesses. I don't know. 152 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:34,080 You got money. That's how you've been taught. That's how you get things because wasn't that how his 153 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:40,960 father got them out of where they were stealing and breaking into homes. Money takes care of all. 154 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:49,840 There were definitely some things that weren't great on their part of being spoiled rich kids. 155 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:56,000 You know what I mean? But I mean money went back to whatever. It doesn't matter. If you had money 156 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,000 like that or have money like that, you can take care of almost anything you need to. 157 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:06,080 Yeah, I also thought it was interesting that in the documentary that I watched recently, 158 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:14,960 they literally could not find one single person except Jose's secretary to say anything nice 159 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:23,760 about him. That says a lot. And then you have the Manudo. Is that how you say it? Manudo. 160 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:30,640 Manudo. You have the boy that was a Manudo that come forward and said that he was drug and right. 161 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:38,480 Drug and right. The Jose. Right. They you know, they've been active this whole time with appeals and 162 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:44,080 all of that and trying to get new trials, especially because what you just said in 2023, 163 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:51,120 one of the singers from Manudo, so Jose Menendez, one of his roles. He was a CEO of a bunch of 164 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:59,440 companies, but one of them was a record label CEO and he was he found and started up Manudo. 165 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:10,400 And in 23, one of those singers came forward and said that he sexually abused him when he was under 166 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:19,200 Jose at that label. And that started a whole thing where, hey, this could be what gets us our new 167 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:27,040 trial. And I do think that that had a lot to do with it. They talked a little bit about that. And so I 168 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:33,520 watched this Netflix documentary. It's called Manudo's Brothers. It came out in October 24. So it's 169 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:41,840 relatively recent. It was a great documentary because it primarily was interviewing the two boys. 170 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:47,680 They had some family on there as well. I don't know. It was just really well done. It's two hours. 171 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:56,560 It's a really good recap up to, well, October because things have happened since October, but it's a 172 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:03,520 good recap up till then. Right. I would definitely, if anyone just needs a refresher, I would definitely 173 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:10,480 recommend that on Netflix. Again, it's called the Menendez Brothers. It came out in October last year. 174 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:18,000 There was another show that came out called Monsters. I don't remember if that was on Netflix as well. 175 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:26,640 It's Ryan Murphy, who does American Horror Story and some of those other shows. I did not 176 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:34,880 like that. It came out, I think it also came out in 24. I felt like it made the boys look like 177 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:41,840 monsters. I mean, that's the title, Monsters, right? Immediately the first episode, I think I even 178 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:48,640 texted you after I watched the first episode and was like, I hate this show. I don't even know if I 179 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:55,680 want to finish it. I just didn't like the way that it portrayed the boys and it didn't, it just didn't 180 00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:03,040 align with how I think and how I feel about what happened with the story. I know, obviously, 181 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:10,000 it's not a documentary, it's an actual TV show, so it's dramatic and all that. But when we're talking 182 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:17,680 about something like this, facts matter, especially since it's still an active case. Yeah, this is 183 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:24,880 in a case that somebody wrote down as a story or just come up with on their own. This is a real 184 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:33,440 real life happening. This is murder and two men who are in prison for the rest of their life. This 185 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:41,600 is serious stuff. You know, I also think a couple of things. One, the time, you know, 1989, this kind of 186 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:50,800 abuse wasn't as widely talked about as it is 2025. So I think that that has gone in their favor and 187 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:58,560 especially with social media, I think that TikTok has been a good sort of support for the boys 188 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:08,080 getting out of jail. In October of 2024, LA DA George Gascon recommended resinnancing. California 189 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:16,160 governor Nukam ordered a parole board risk assessment in early 2025. Gascon considered rehabilitation 190 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:24,800 because of the abuse history. New DA Nathan Hockman took office January of 2025 with Drew Gascon's 191 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:30,560 motion demanding full acceptance of guilt and lies, though. There's some talk here and I live here. 192 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:39,280 So I see there a little more local. Yeah, there's some talk about people weren't in love with 193 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:46,000 Gascon and didn't love some of the things that he was doing. So this new person is coming in sort 194 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:52,080 of trying to prove a point. Unfortunately, this got wrapped up in that and it people believe it 195 00:24:52,080 --> 00:25:00,560 affected the election that happened for this position in November. So there's again a little bit 196 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:09,040 of side drama around the case that really doesn't even involve the case. And then we talked about this 197 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:17,920 on this podcast, you know, there were fires here. They originally had an earlier date for all of this 198 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:26,880 to go through the court system, but we had some major fires. So it ended up being held in mid May, 199 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:33,360 since it was on our local news. I actually went live on TikTok and showed it in the moment, 200 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:40,960 which was kind of cool. They did all the testimony again, talked about their prison rehab. They've been 201 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:51,120 upstanding prisoners, if you will. Lyle has a green space, any gardens. Eric has been working with 202 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:58,800 hospice volunteering. And so they've been sort of model prisoners. And then they had family members 203 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:05,840 come forward again in support of the boys. There were some officials who support the boys as well, 204 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:11,360 and they testified and said that they should be sentenced and be able to get out of jail. 205 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:20,560 The judge ended up reducing their sentences to 50 years to life, and that could change their 206 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:27,840 eligibility for parole under what's called this youthful offender law. Both of them came in virtually 207 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:36,400 both admitted guilt. Now we're just waiting to see what happens. Amy and I will give our personal 208 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:44,400 opinions here at the end of what we think should happen. Yeah. I mean, and people need to keep in mind 209 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:50,960 that they aren't doubting or saying that they didn't do what they did. It's just have they 210 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:59,520 spent enough time in prison or they rehabilitated has their time there done what it was supposed to do. 211 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:07,840 I mean, that's basically all this all this is about in my opinion. But of course, you know how that 212 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:17,440 goes, the ruling reunited, polarized reactions, some celebrated, some condemned, and others were just, 213 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:25,360 you know, it just didn't matter. But for the most part, I think there was a lot that were quite upset. 214 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:33,600 I remember, I don't know, I do take that back. I do see a lot of support. Didn't you? Oh yeah. Yeah, 215 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,480 so I mean, I've seen both ways. I don't, I have seen a lot, but I have seen a lot of support, 216 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:46,480 and then I've seen others that just don't care. Especially on social in support. I feel like if they 217 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:53,840 are in there, they are both married to women who are outside of the jail. They are both able to 218 00:27:53,840 --> 00:28:03,200 stay out of trouble, give forth, and be productive toward the jail. Maybe they can do it outside. 219 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:11,520 I think being married will definitely be helpful because it's not easy to get a job as a person 220 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:18,400 convicted of a murder felony. Everybody knows. You can't hide it. With these two at least, you know, 221 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:24,400 because of the way they grew up, their educations were really advanced. So I mean, maybe it would be 222 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:30,000 a little easier for them to get a job than maybe someone growing up in an impoverished area who gets 223 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:35,600 incarcerated at 15 and dropped out of school at 13. Like that's a different, they don't have 224 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:42,720 as good of an education unless they were concentrating on that in prison, but I feel like they'd be 225 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,480 relatively employable. I don't know. Let's really stop and think about it realistically. Do you think 226 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,960 they're going to have to worry about money? Because I think that there's going to be all kinds of 227 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:59,200 opportunities thrown their way if they're released. Because I haven't seen high profile 228 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:06,560 individual release from prison that has been followed like they have come out and just be broke and 229 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,920 have nothing true. They're definitely going to have opportunities for interviews and making money 230 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:18,480 other ways that a normal kid from some American city isn't going to have. They got caught with 231 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:27,280 the bag of Wade, right? Totally. But I think, you know, I've thought about this a lot and it's probably 232 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:35,520 not something that a lot of people have. And I'm not necessarily speaking on the age 18 and 21, 233 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:42,320 but I've thought about several times when I've listened to episodes of True Crumb stories where an 234 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:53,600 individual was 12, 13, 15 and they had done something like this or maybe not as bad. Life's a long time 235 00:29:53,600 --> 00:30:01,840 and we aren't completely developed mentally at those ages. And I mean, you could even go to 236 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:09,920 I guess the length of saying that about a s full rich kid that's 18 or 21. So I don't know. I'm so torn. 237 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:17,520 With what happened in my family, I'm pretty hardcore on criminals and thinking that they should 238 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:24,960 never be out of jail and like you took someone's life, fuck out of here. Like no, you should stay in jail. 239 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:33,840 I hate you. It's hard. And the person that did that to my niece had really extensive abuse as well. 240 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:42,480 It's just hard to wrap my brain around. Should that come into play? Should it matter that you were 18? 241 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:50,960 Should it matter that someone was 15? Was it the combination of abuse with an underdeveloped brain 242 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:59,840 because they were only a teenager? I just have a hard time not saying no, you're just a criminal. 243 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:11,680 I mean, the answer is no. But with me knowing that when you say or when someone say it says the 244 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:18,480 term people change is true, I think you could maybe look at it on a case to case basis at that point. 245 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:25,760 I know, but watching shows, I'm just going to throw this out here like evil. What's that show called? 246 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:32,320 Evil. Oh shoot. I can't remember. I watch it all the time. Anyways, it doesn't matter. It's about 247 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:41,200 people who do horrible things. And watching that and thinking these people were just inherently bad people. 248 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:48,320 When they were younger, they started a lot of them hurting animals, killing animals, and then 249 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:55,440 abusing their siblings or whatever. It's like some people just have bad evil brains. 250 00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:05,280 That's where I get torn up in should that matter? Should your age matter? Right. But I guess I'm still 251 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:14,560 looking at it on the side of the abuse. I know, but if it doesn't make murder okay. No, and I'm not 252 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:20,400 saying it even specific to this case because I actually do feel differently about this case in 253 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:30,240 particular. Some people no matter how much rehab they go through or how much God they find in prison 254 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:38,720 or what like their brains are just inherently evil. So do I think? Obviously it's case by case. 255 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:48,960 But it just makes me torn of do I think that age should come into it. Oh, I get it, I do. Because in all 256 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:55,600 reality, everything that you said about it in the start, no, I mean you took someone's life. You 257 00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:04,880 murdered someone so rot. Also understand that not everybody's raised the same way and don't have 258 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:12,800 the same things happen to them and not everybody's brain works the same. I don't know. It's why I'm not 259 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:21,120 in one of those positions. Right. Yeah. And I guess we'll find out. So these hearings are coming up 260 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:27,680 in August, like I said, Gavin Newsom, who's our governor here in California, he's going to weigh in on 261 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:37,040 their rehabilitation in jail, their remorse and all of that and their risk assessment. I, there are 262 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:43,920 two outcomes here. They're either going to deny it and they'll revisit it later on or they're 263 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:53,760 going to say or the judge is going to say, okay, your term is shorter and now you factor in time served 264 00:33:53,760 --> 00:34:01,840 and they could get out now or maybe in a couple of years. They could possibly walk out next month. 265 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,560 Crazy. But what would be next month? They have to wait like, what would they play games and make you 266 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:13,440 wait like month or some stupid shit. I actually don't know. They always play games like you're free 267 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:19,600 and then you go back and sit and sell like this and tell that's what I see. Like on people, especially 268 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,640 that like we're going to get off topic for a minute. I watched this one dude who had been convicted of 269 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:30,160 murder didn't do it. He caused not a issue in jail. He was just really saddened upset because he 270 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,480 like you don't you don't believe me. So you just might as well sit there and you know, make the best out 271 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,200 of it. Well, they said you're free. You didn't do it. And then took him back or sit like this for about 272 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,840 three months. That could happen. I don't know. But you know that this dude didn't do it. Why are you 273 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:49,200 taking up more his time? You've already took all kinds of it. Weird. You're going to go home to your 274 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:54,080 life and to the money that you've been making this whole time that he's been in prison. He just 275 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,960 waiting to go home and start all that again. That pisses me off. But okay, that was my rant for the day, 276 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,640 sorry. If that's the way that it goes in the direction and they're like, okay, you're going to get 277 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:11,360 30 years, which you've already done. So you're released immediately. Is that like that day? Is that 278 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:18,320 in like you said three months? I guess we'll see. Like in that other situation, it's so unfair. They're 279 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,720 going to be like all quicksale. Okay, yeah, we messed up. They're going to drag their fate. I'm sure. 280 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:29,440 But gosh, we'll see. They could be walking among us. Not necessarily among me, but among us. 281 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:40,320 Yeah, among me, among you. Yeah, we'll see. But I will tell you this whole story, this whole 282 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:49,840 horrible murder, everything that they've created. It has been wild. Everything has been dramatized. 283 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:57,200 There's books. There's court TV talk shows. It's just been so much let out the recent media. Of course, 284 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:04,160 Don Ari spoke about she talked about documentary on Netflix, the interview with the brothers in 285 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:10,640 prison. That was in October 24. That was the men and as brothers. And then the Netflix series 286 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,560 monster. She told you about that. That of course, the both of those together that of course brought 287 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:24,960 more interest, especially I believe when you started bringing up the mentioning of sexual and 288 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:33,280 emotional abuse. And the people really started to be like, huh, what'd you say? Because now people 289 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:40,320 are more educated and are a little more understanding when it comes to that. It's not just, well, honey, 290 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:47,440 it was your fault for that short scarchuering. Now everybody can experience sexual abuse. And that's 291 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:53,840 the norm. So yeah, it's just really brought a total different look into it when you look at it from 292 00:36:53,840 --> 00:37:00,800 people back then to now and how we're more educated. Wes Concentine, they copied scenes from monsters 293 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:08,160 that led to a murder. Rise in ethical questions about dramatizing real crime. And I think that's 294 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:18,960 important as well. Because it was Lyle, Krutm if I'm wrong, Don. Wasn't it Lyle that supposedly wrote 295 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:27,440 the script with his friend? I don't know. I don't remember. But do you remember hearing about the script, 296 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:34,640 don't you? No, I don't know. Yeah, you didn't know this. Supposedly, they hit, I'm not going to say 297 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,440 which one it was. I think it might have been, it might have been Lyle, but don't quote me on that. 298 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:47,280 Was with his friend and they wrote a script to a movie. And it pretty much was about killing 299 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:53,280 parents for money. Oh, I do think I remember this now, but I heard about it way back when this was 300 00:37:53,280 --> 00:38:01,360 a long time ago. Right. Not recent. Yeah. With the social media thing too. And why I think it's 301 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:08,320 such a big deal right now is because this happened in 1989. So most of the people who are on social 302 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,280 media right now didn't even know about this case until all of this new stuff came up with a 303 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:23,600 Menudo kid in 23. Now this new social media generation is more in tune with social justice and abuse 304 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:31,200 and all of that, which is why I think also it's getting such a push because it's just a whole new 305 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:38,400 generation of kids who feel more passionately about social justice. And that's a wonderful thing. 306 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:46,640 And I don't want to hear anybody say, well why didn't they come forward back then? Because not every 307 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:53,840 victim is ready to raise their hand and claim they're a victim. But they did tell their cousin. 308 00:38:53,840 --> 00:39:00,640 Right, but I'm also talking about the Menudo. Oh yeah. Not everybody's looking to be like, hey, 309 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:07,760 guess what happened to me folks? That's gross and victim blaming and why don't people come forward 310 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:14,320 because people don't believe them. And you know what? We have this exact scenario just happened 311 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:21,760 last week with Cassie and Diddy. There was video of him beating the shit out of her in a hallway 312 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:29,280 and he was just found not guilty. That's why people don't come forward. But it's youth. What's the youth? 313 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:36,000 Yeah, I'm going to just be thrown out of the bus and embarrass. So what's the youth? And especially 314 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:44,320 you're I don't know how old was that kid 12 years old or something like that young? Which one? 315 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:49,680 From Menudo? Oh, he was young. Yeah, they were they were they were teens. They were young. Who's 316 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:57,680 going to believe that a man in the position of a CEO is going to be doing anything like that to 317 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:04,480 little boy? Right. Things like that don't happen. Well, Anda was a different time. Although 318 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:10,240 fast forward to what I just said about Cassie, I guess it doesn't even matter that it's a different time 319 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:17,440 now because here we are. It blows my mind. Blows my mind. There was so much evidence. I don't even know. 320 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:26,320 That's a whole different conversation. Do we think is 35 years? Is that enough for them? It's a long 321 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:34,080 time. It is a long time. Like they're full. They're like for some little age that's all the life they 322 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:43,920 even get. Yeah. I think that. No, wait, is this going to be judge ruled or jury ruled? Judge, I just 323 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:54,400 hope that the judge can open their mind enough to look at this case from all sides and then see what 324 00:40:54,400 --> 00:41:00,640 they truly feel. Because that's the only way you can make a fair decision is by stepping back and 325 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:09,360 just looking at the whole. You know what I'm saying? The whole picture. Yeah. I think it was, I can't even 326 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:16,400 stay it strongly enough. What a travesty it was that the judge didn't allow the abuse 327 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:24,960 into the second trial. They were convicted based off of a fourth of the story, maybe a half of the 328 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:33,840 story, whatever, not even probably. That was such an integral part of their life and their story and 329 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:40,640 why they say they did this. So for that to not be allowed, I think was horrible. They should have 330 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:47,200 at least been able to present those facts. Whether it would have changed it, maybe they still would have 331 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:54,880 gotten life. I don't know. But how do you make such a huge life decision for someone not knowing 332 00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:07,920 all of the facts? And especially the part when it's not all just loud and Eric talking and saying they 333 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:13,440 did this, they did that you have other family members and such coming forward and say, you know, 334 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:19,840 I didn't think about it at the time, but that was kind of weird how Kitty wouldn't let me down the hallway 335 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:26,480 when Jose had the boys back in the bedroom. Was she not wanting me to hear what was going on? 336 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:34,880 You're talking about kids. I don't care if they're standing before you as 18 and 20 years, 21 years 337 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,720 old. They were kids then. And I don't care if they want, if he wasn't sexually abused, 338 00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:46,880 and on what if he was baiting them? And I will say as someone who is super tough on crime, 339 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:56,960 and I live in the city where this happened, I go to that house and just look at it regularly, 340 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:07,280 not like every day, but like a couple times a year, I 100% would not feel unsafe if they were let out 341 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:15,520 of jail next month. I think this was so specific to their parents if they were let out in a month, 342 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:23,440 which I think should happen. I would not feel like my life is in danger because these two murderers 343 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:31,040 are running around Los Angeles. That's what I think should happen. And again, I'm super tough on crime, 344 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:38,560 so if I feel that way, I don't know. I just feel that if they were released, I would just go 345 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:46,320 be with their wives and finish their family. I'm like you, I believe that it was just targeted at their 346 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:54,400 parents for what they endured. I don't, I'm not taking up for what they did. I'm not saying it was great. 347 00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:00,400 I'm not saying it's what they should have done. I'm not saying it's the right thing. I also can't 348 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:06,560 sit here and say if I was treated like that, how would I handle it? I'm going to think I wouldn't 349 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:13,760 go off the deep end like that, but you don't know. You don't know. And I feel like they aren't what I 350 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:20,160 described as inherently evil people. They weren't abusing and killing animals. They weren't abusing 351 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:29,040 other people. I mean, outside of internally with each other, they weren't doing all of those things 352 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:36,160 that you see in those shows of the development of a serial killer or something like that. That's not 353 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:42,160 them. You just have two little messed up boys who were just thrown anything that they could think of 354 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:48,880 or needed or wanted. And money wasn't the same to them. I'm going to think. Again, like Dawn says, 355 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:55,840 I'm not putting words into the mouth, but I wouldn't think that they would value money at 18 and 21 the 356 00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:03,920 way we did. You know, they're just bold brats that were abused and what happened happened. 357 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:10,560 Exactly. That's what I think too. Yeah, because listen, I grew up in a family with money, 358 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:18,960 not like their money. Their money is way different, but I grew up in a family with money. And I got in 359 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:26,480 trouble for stealing. It's just like the thrill of it. It's not, I'm not a criminal. I'm not a murderer. 360 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:33,120 Like, it's just, I bet you that's relatively common with people who grow up with money. 361 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:42,000 I don't know why, but I did it. So like looking back at, you know, sure, they got in trouble 362 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:48,800 for stealing. So did I. I mean, I didn't really do anything like that, but it's just kids stuff. 363 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:54,240 Exactly. I mean, kids get in trouble. Kids do stupid shit. Show me one that doesn't. 364 00:45:54,240 --> 00:46:01,600 We'll see what happens. And at some point, I do Amy and I are going to do a live where, and it may 365 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:06,080 have already happened by the time this airs. I don't know, but we're going to do a do a live where I 366 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:11,520 sit outside their house with some equipment. If I can, I will say after the Netflix documentary, 367 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:18,720 I could not sit outside their house anymore. It got crazy. And because of all the kids there, 368 00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:25,760 they had to put up a huge fence with tarps so that people couldn't see in anymore. And someone 369 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:31,120 purchased the house. I think last year, maybe the year before, I think they're remodeling the 370 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,480 whole thing. I don't think they live there. And so they had to put up this big gate with no access. 371 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:43,280 I'm hoping now that it's been six months, seven months that that has calmed down a little. So I do 372 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:49,280 want to do that. Do a live where we do that. Just see it. Who knows? Maybe sitting outside with a little 373 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,560 bit of equipment in my car. Maybe I'll get something. You think they're regretting by in the house now? 374 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:59,360 Wouldn't you know what you're getting into? I would like to help, but you wouldn't think you'd have 375 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:04,480 to put a tarp up. I mean, I would no better, but some people don't think about that stuff. Remember, 376 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:12,720 I know, but with this story, shows could pop up at any time. Documentary. So yeah, I don't, I mean, 377 00:47:12,720 --> 00:47:17,920 I'd be surprised if they were surprised, but who knows? I hope they don't do anything with the outside 378 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:25,280 of it. I don't know. I hope maybe just update the end of that. So far know. When I saw it that last time 379 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:31,360 with the fence and everything, it still looked the same on the outside. Good. Yeah, we'll see. Hopefully, 380 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:38,160 I think it's a pretty house. And I always could do, if we do a do a live there, I could always do one 381 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:44,320 after this air is just so people. Yeah. No to watch for it. Because it's so close to me. It's like 20 382 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:54,080 minutes away. Right. Which means equivalent to one mile down the road? Exactly. Yes, basically. That's 383 00:47:54,080 --> 00:48:02,000 what I think I'm hoping next month. I'd like to say I'm released. You too. They did their time. And 384 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:08,080 listen, I'm not saying they're completely innocent. And I'm not saying people who are subjected to 385 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:12,880 severe abuse should go around murdering people. That's not at all what I'm saying. No, no, no, no, no. 386 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:19,040 But they did their time. They've been in jail for over 30 years. It's a long time. It is a long time. 387 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:25,760 And I mean who they get out. I don't believe they pose a threat to anyone else. They've never like 388 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:34,640 you said heart anyone else. No. Previous or after in jail. I agree with you. Yeah, it's bold, rich 389 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:42,080 kids that were abused. It's coming up. It's so close. It's in six weeks or so. All right, well, 390 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:49,200 we'll meet back here in a week and not talk about this. But definitely we should do a mini-sode 391 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:57,360 after the judge rolls. And we see what happens. 100%. Everyone, thanks for listening. Let us know your 392 00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:03,440 opinions. Make sure you're following us on all of our social. We'd be curious to know what you all 393 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:09,520 think about what should happen in August. Release or stay in prison. I want to know what you think. Yeah. 394 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,360 All right. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Bye. 395 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:24,080 Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us. Keep on the lookout for our next episode 396 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,440 and stay gruesome. 397 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,440 [Music]