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 [Music]
 
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 Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome to Me, where we talk about movies and shows
 
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 that cover true crime, paranormal, and horror.
 
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 I am one of your hosts, Dawn.
 
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 I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I'm pretty well versed in the horror
 
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 genre.
 
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 Especially those 80s classics.
 
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 A quick fun fact about me, I have a very extensive crystal collection.
 
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 Hello, I'm Amy.
 
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 I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal.
 
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 A few fun facts about me.
 
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 I'm an empath.
 
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 I collect old dolls and you know, I've never flown on an airplane.
 
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 Can you believe that?
 
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 Now Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime, so here we are.
 
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 Talk Gruesome to Me.
 
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 Hello, we are here with another true crime episode.
 
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 This one is very current.
 
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 It just happened a few weeks back.
 
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 We are going to do a little disclaimer that it is a true crime episode and we'll give
 
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 a little more details about that disclaimer in a few minutes.
 
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 Let's get into the story.
 
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 On November 7th, 2025, very recent, an 18-year-old Florida cheerleader named Anna Kepner was
 
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 found dead under a bed in her cruise ship cabin.
 
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 She was on the boat, the Carnival Horizon and her body was found hidden beneath the mattress
 
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 frame, wrapped in a blanket and covered with life vests.
 
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 The medical examiner later ruled her death was homicide by mechanical asphyxiation.
 
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 Staying in that same cabin were two boys.
 
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 One was her 14-year-old brother.
 
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 The other was her 16-year-old stepbrother.
 
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 His name is Timothy Hudson.
 
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 That's the only time we're going to reference his name.
 
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 That is out in the public, but because he's a minor, we don't want to keep repeating it.
 
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 We aren't going to say that again.
 
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 Court filings and recent hearings now describe the stepbrother as a suspect in her death.
 
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 And he has been sent to live with relatives outside of the house while the FBI decides whether
 
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 to bring state or federal charges or any charges.
 
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 In a few minutes, we'll walk through what we know about Anna's life, the timeline of the
 
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 cruise, and where the case stands right now.
 
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 I do have a little snippet to play.
 
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 It's from a YouTube video from Law and Crime.
 
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 It is Anna Kepner's stepmom, her name is Shantel, and she's kind of describing where they
 
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 were, the sleeping arrangements and whatnot.
 
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 So we'll just play that really quick for a couple of minutes for you.
 
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 As far as the minor children, what were the sleeping arrangements on this cruise?
 
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 In my room with my husband and his nine-year-old daughter, and then shared a room with his
 
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 Step sister and step brother.
 
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 The room was directly crossed from ours.
 
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 What was the stepson's name?
 
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 Anna Kepner.
 
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 And what was the stepbrother's name?
 
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 And how old is...
 
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 14.
 
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 And how old was Anna?
 
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 18.
 
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 Now, who made the decision to have these three teenagers in one room in the cruise?
 
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 We had talked it over with our travel agent, and that was what was suggested.
 
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 Did you have to sign any special permission for the children to reside together?
 
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 So, was it a mutual decision between yourself and your husband?
 
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 Correct.
 
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 And at some point did you discover that one of the children had passed away?
 
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 Yes.
 
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 And when was that that you discovered that?
 
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 Friday morning.
 
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 When was the last time that you had seen the child before that Friday morning?
 
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 Thursday night.
 
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 I want to say, also, if you want to watch the whole thing at 17 minutes, you can find it
 
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 Law and Crime.
 
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 But I want to say you'll hear a couple of times there were redacted names.
 
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 Those were the minor children, so they don't want to say those out loud on the internet.
 
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 And that's totally understandable.
 
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 Now this case is not solved.
 
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 No one has been charged with Anna's murder.
 
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 The 16-year-old will talk about he's a minor and is presumed innocent unless the court says
 
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 otherwise.
 
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 Our goal is to lay out what's been reported and make it as factual as possible.
 
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 Here's our concept warning.
 
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 So this episode involves the death of a teenager.
 
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 And we'll talk about some details about her death and how her body was found.
 
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 And we're also basing this episode on reporting from news outlets and then details revealed
 
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 in family court docs that have been summarized in the press.
 
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 So we try to keep things as factual as possible here.
 
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 Yeah, and both of us think that the best place to start is who was Anna as a person.
 
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 Anna Keppner was 18 years old and she is from Titusville, Florida.
 
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 She was a high-achieving student.
 
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 Her family described her as straight-a kid.
 
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 She was happy, bubbly, someone who lit up a room and made people laugh.
 
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 She'd been a gymnast from the age of two.
 
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 And by her senior year, she was on the varsity cheerleading squad at Temple Christian School.
 
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 She'd recently transferred there for her final year of high school.
 
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 And she had so much, so much more life ahead of her.
 
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 And she wasn't just athletic.
 
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 She was also outdoorsy.
 
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 She had a boaters license and she had a scuba certification.
 
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 She apparently loved being on the water, which makes the setting of this story because it's
 
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 a cruise, especially, I don't know, odd and heartbreaking.
 
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 Her family also has talked about how she wanted to join the military after graduation.
 
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 She had already taken the entrance test and she had started talking with recruiters and
 
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 was planning a career that would help her to serve her community.
 
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 All the people who described her and they knew her and they said she was kind and compassionate.
 
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 She volunteered in her grandparents over 55 community.
 
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 She helped out with local businesses in town.
 
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 She worked at an aquarium supply store and colleagues there said that there wouldn't be a day that
 
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 they didn't think of her.
 
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 Her grandmother, she called her Anna Banana, that's so cute.
 
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 And teachers remembered her poking her head into their offices just a chat, turning a quick
 
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 hello into a 15 minute conversation.
 
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 And that really just speaks on her character because when you're that age, most students
 
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 they could care less about the teachers or what they have to say.
 
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 And when we talk about a homicide, we're talking about cutting off this young girl's entire
 
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 future, her military plans, her friendships, her senior year, everything, just all in that
 
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 one night on this ship.
 
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 Again, early November, 2025, she went on a family cruise.
 
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 She was on the Carnival Horizon, which was a six-night Caribbean itinerary and that left
 
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 out of Miami.
 
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 Now I want to say this, her family tree, if you will, is quite complicated.
 
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 We did our best to try and make sure that we're getting all of these family members, the adults,
 
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 and their relationship with Anna and the relationships with each other, correct.
 
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 I really hope that we aren't going to say anything wrong, but I did try to find an actual
 
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 family tree, which I could not find.
 
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 So I'm crossing my fingers that this is all accurate.
 
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 But onboard was her blended family.
 
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 It was her father, her stepmother, siblings, and grandparents.
 
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 So this was not a small group of people.
 
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 Again, there's a lot of complicated family structure.
 
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 There's also a custody battle that we're going to get into as well coming up.
 
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 So complicated family dynamics.
 
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 Most certainly.
 
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 Again, Anna, she was sharing a cabin with her two brothers.
 
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 Her 14 year old biological brother and her 16 year old stepbrother.
 
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 Court filings and news coverage say that the three teens wanted to share a room together
 
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 and were considered very close.
 
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 Anna's stepmom has said that they were, they were like best friends.
 
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 This was not the case where at least on the surface people were forcing a girl to
 
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 bunk with someone that she didn't trust or didn't want to.
 
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 Only the story from the adults is that these kids were bonded.
 
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 They were close and they chose to room together.
 
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 Then fast forward to the night before Anna's body was discovered.
 
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 They had been on the cruise already for several days.
 
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 And according to testimony later shared in court, the family had dinner that night.
 
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 Anna reportedly told relatives that she did not feel well and she left dinner early to
 
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 go back to her cabin.
 
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 Surveillance footage, as described in the media, shows Anna returning to her room after spending
 
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 time with her grandparents.
 
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 And then that was the last time that anyone had seen her alive on camera.
 
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 Her stepmother testified later that she didn't check on Anna that night after dinner.
 
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 She just assumed that Anna had went to her cabin and had gone to sleep.
 
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 The three teens were in the cabin, so what happened in those hours is the mystery of this case.
 
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 Sometime during the late night and early morning hours, Anna was in their cabin with those
 
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 two boys.
 
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 Court records in interviews say that the 16 year old stepmother was the only person in the
 
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 cabin with her at certain points.
 
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 So her younger brother, the 14 year old biological brother, must have come and gone out of their
 
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 cabin.
 
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 And her father has publicly stated that in his view, the stepmother was the only one in
 
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 the room when she was last known to be alive.
 
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 There's also disturbing detail.
 
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 This is not court documented, but there's a disturbing detail from Anna's ex-boyfriend.
 
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 In an interview discussed with the news, he says that during a 3am FaceTime call, after
 
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 Anna had fallen asleep, he saw the stepbrother climb on top of her on the bed.
 
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 He didn't understand at the time what he was seeing in the moment and then connected it
 
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 later after she had passed away.
 
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 That's where we have to be really careful, though.
 
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 That's one person's account relayed through media.
 
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 It's important, but we gotta remember it's not sworn trial testimony in this criminal
 
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 case.
 
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 Still investigators and the family are clearly paying attention to it, though.
 
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 The next morning, the family planned to meet for breakfast.
 
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 Anna obviously didn't show up.
 
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 And at first, they thought that she was sleeping because she had said the night before that
 
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 she wasn't feeling well.
 
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 She wasn't seen by family for roughly 17 hours leading up to the discovery of her body,
 
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 which was kind of part of that clip that I played.
 
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 When Housekeeping staff eventually entered the cabin room late morning, they made this horrific
 
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 discovery.
 
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 Under one of the beds, they found Anna's body.
 
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 She was wrapped in a blanket and covered with lifevests.
 
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 Yeah, and she wasn't just lying there on the floor.
 
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 Someone had actually hid her there.
 
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 Exactly.
 
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 And this is one of the points that led investigators to treat her death as suspicious from the beginning.
 
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 You don't accidentally end up under a bed wrapped in covered with lifevests.
 
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 And then at that point, the ship alerted authorities and the FBI was waiting when the boat docked
 
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 in Miami.
 
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 For a little while, all the public really knew was that Anna had died on the cruise and
 
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 that the FBI was investigating it.
 
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 Then later in November, that's not.
 
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 We‚Äôre into December, November.
 
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 Just recent, the medical examiner's findings became public and Anna's death was then
 
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 ruled a homicide.
 
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 Her cause of death, mechanical asphyxiation.
 
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 So that can be things like strangulation.
 
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 It can be some kind of pressure on the neck that cuts off the airflow or the blood flow.
 
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 According to Anna's family, the FBI told them that it could have been caused by something
 
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 called a bar hold, which is basically where there's an arm across someone's neck.
 
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 And there were also bruises on her neck consistent with that type of force.
 
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 Okay, so she's found under a bed.
 
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 She's wrapped up.
 
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 She's hidden.
 
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 The cause of death, it's not an overdose.
 
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 She didn't fall.
 
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 And obviously there wasn't some sort of medical event.
 
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 Like you said, she couldn't have done this to herself.
 
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 It's homicide.
 
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 That started a huge shift in the public understanding of this case.
 
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 And what is really going on with it, they just had no clue.
 
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 And at that point, the attention turned to the question, who could have done this?
 
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 You know, they're in a locked environment on a cruise ship.
 
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 Yeah, and you know, the whole, everybody that knew them had to be shocked.
 
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 But this is where the stepbrother comes in.
 
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 Investigators were always going to look hard at the people that are closest to Anna in
 
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 time and space.
 
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 The people she was with in the cabin that night.
 
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 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:40,920
 And court filings and separate family court case later revealed that the 16 year old stepbrother
 
 215
 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,000
 had become the focus of the criminal investigation.
 
 216
 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,120
 And those filings they refer to him by initials.
 
 217
 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:55,480
 And there they describe him as a suspect in an FBI investigation in Anna's death.
 
 218
 00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:03,080
 And more recently, a Florida judge and a custody hearing explicitly referred to him as a suspect
 
 219
 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,680
 in Anna's killing.
 
 220
 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:11,800
 Magazines, they've also reported that the court record show he became the subject of a criminal
 
 221
 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,600
 investigation shortly after Anna's death.
 
 222
 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:22,600
 We also know that there are serious concerns about what was going on with them at the time
 
 223
 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,120
 of this cruise.
 
 224
 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:32,680
 There's reports that he had prescriptions for ADHD and also insomnia, but that he didn't
 
 225
 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,600
 bring them with him for the trip.
 
 226
 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:43,240
 Some accounts describe his behavior as increasingly erratic or even maybe troubling.
 
 227
 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,920
 There are also claims surfaced in coverage quoting family Anna‚Äôs family says that he'd had
 
 228
 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:54,440
 an unhealthy or obsessive fixation on Anna.
 
 229
 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:59,040
 But again, I do want to say this loud and clear.
 
 230
 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:04,240
 Those are allegations made by others and not proven in court.
 
 231
 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,800
 Anna's father has been vocal.
 
 232
 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:13,000
 In interviews, he has said that he believes his stepson was the only person in the cabin
 
 233
 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,200
 with her when she was last seen alive.
 
 234
 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:22,040
 And he's made some chilling statements about what he thinks should happen if the stepbrother
 
 235
 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,560
 is found responsible.
 
 236
 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:30,520
 At the same time, Anna's stepmother has said that Anna and the stepbrother were extremely
 
 237
 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:36,880
 close and like you said, like best friends, and that the three teens themselves requested
 
 238
 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,600
 to share that room on the cruise.
 
 239
 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:48,040
 So you have parents and relatives who are maybe not sounding all on the same page about what
 
 240
 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:53,360
 this boy is like or what he may or may not have done.
 
 241
 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:59,720
 Yeah, and if you're wondering how we know so much about the stepbrother status, it isn't
 
 242
 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,480
 because of the criminal trial.
 
 243
 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,200
 There isn't one yet.
 
 244
 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:09,200
 But it's actually because of a separate, very messy custody case.
 
 245
 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:15,840
 After Anna's death, Timothy Hudson went to family court and he asked for emergency custody
 
 246
 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,400
 of his younger daughter he shares with Anna's stepmother, Shantel.
 
 247
 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,720
 He was saying that he was concerned about the safety of the other children in the household.
 
 248
 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,320
 And I mean, I get that.
 
 249
 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,280
 He also argued that he hadn't been allowed to see his daughter for over a year and that
 
 250
 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:39,040
 his ex had taken the children on this cruise and they did not have his permission.
 
 251
 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:45,800
 And then on the other side, Anna's stepmom, Shantel and her current husband Anna's father,
 
 252
 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:53,400
 Christopher, they were fighting to keep custody of the younger child and keep details of this
 
 253
 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,040
 criminal investigation from being made public.
 
 254
 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,360
 So they're trying to keep all of these details quiet.
 
 255
 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:08,200
 She requested a gag order in a family court to prevent parties from talking to the press
 
 256
 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,240
 and to keep certain filing sealed.
 
 257
 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:16,360
 But that's why these hearings are so crucial, these custody hearings, lawyers are openly
 
 258
 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:21,080
 discussing the fact that the 16 year old is a suspect.
 
 259
 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:27,520
 They're talking about what law enforcement's doing and where the 16 year old is now living
 
 260
 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,680
 all in the context of is this younger child safe.
 
 261
 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:39,840
 I also want to say that the father and the stepmom were able to keep that custody because
 
 262
 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,720
 of the fact that this 16 year old was taken out of the house.
 
 263
 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:44,720
 That makes sense.
 
 264
 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,120
 I mean, there's no risk now.
 
 265
 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:53,200
 And that's where we get one of the biggest developments about where the stepbrother
 
 266
 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:54,200
 is today.
 
 267
 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,200
 We know that he's been sent to live with relatives.
 
 268
 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,640
 Anna's stepmother's attorney told the court that Anna's parents moved him out of the home
 
 269
 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,720
 after the homicide ruling.
 
 270
 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:09,040
 And that was because they didn't want to put other children at risk while the investigation
 
 271
 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,360
 continued.
 
 272
 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:16,080
 Court records say his location is being kept confidential and is only known to the parents
 
 273
 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,320
 and law enforcement.
 
 274
 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,520
 I did see an article that said where he is.
 
 275
 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,560
 We are not going to say that because that's not ethical.
 
 276
 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,840
 But unfortunately that information has leaked out.
 
 277
 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:37,560
 And then in one hearing, the judge acknowledged that the teen is considered a suspect, but ultimately
 
 278
 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,080
 ruled, like I said, that the youngest child, the girl is not in immediate danger living
 
 279
 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:43,640
 with her father and stepmother.
 
 280
 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,760
 So the judge did not remove that child.
 
 281
 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:54,320
 Meanwhile, Anna's stepmother is in a form of protective exile, if you will, with relatives
 
 282
 00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:01,960
 and under a power of attorney arrangement as everyone waits to see what the FBI and the
 
 283
 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,440
 prosecutors are going to do.
 
 284
 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:10,200
 So where are things right now as of early December 2025?
 
 285
 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:16,800
 No one has been arrested or charged in her death that FBI through its Miami office is leading
 
 286
 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:23,320
 the investigation because this was a US citizen on a cruise in international waters.
 
 287
 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,480
 The agency has declined to publicly name any suspects.
 
 288
 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:34,640
 And despite that official silence, multiple court filings and hearings in state family court
 
 289
 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:43,600
 identify Anna's 16 year old stepmother as a suspect and as the subject of an FBI investigation,
 
 290
 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:49,680
 both his mother and his father have referred to him that way in documents and in testimony
 
 291
 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:50,680
 as well.
 
 292
 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:56,600
 And the prosecutors are still deciding what if any criminal charges they might bring.
 
 293
 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,880
 The stepmother's attorney has publicly said the FBI is way in weather to pursue federal
 
 294
 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:08,400
 charges because of the special marine time jurisdiction on the cruise ship or to hand
 
 295
 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,480
 the case off to the authorities in Florida.
 
 296
 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:18,200
 Toxicology reports and psychological evaluations are reportedly pending and those could influence
 
 297
 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,640
 how investigators interpret what happened in that cabin.
 
 298
 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,280
 The custody case is also still ongoing.
 
 299
 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:33,120
 There are future hearings scheduled where Anna's mother, stepmother and the father are all
 
 300
 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:40,040
 going to keep battling over the remaining children and over what information can be made public.
 
 301
 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:47,080
 Well and how to navigate this whole possible homicide within their family.
 
 302
 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:52,040
 One of the most heartbreaking things in this story is the emotional tug of war inside
 
 303
 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,040
 this family.
 
 304
 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:02,080
 Anna's father and some relatives who are openly suspicious of the stepbrother, they point
 
 305
 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:08,480
 to the fact that he was in the cabin that Anna was hidden, that the cause of death was a
 
 306
 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:16,240
 homicide and to some allegedly disturbing behavior of his that he has had in the past.
 
 307
 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:22,960
 Now on the other side you have Anna's stepmother, she has said she believed the three teens were best
 
 308
 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:30,480
 friends that she still loves her son even while at knowing and aknowledging he is under investigation.
 
 309
 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:37,320
 She's trying to keep custody of her other child while she's also navigating the possibility
 
 310
 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:42,720
 that her teenage son could be charged with murdering his step sister.
 
 311
 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,920
 That is a lot.
 
 312
 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:50,960
 And there's the stepbrothers biological father who has told reporters that he never gave
 
 313
 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:57,080
 permission for his son to go on this cruise and he's also publicly grappling with the idea
 
 314
 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,600
 that his child is a suspect in a homicide case.
 
 315
 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:08,320
 According to reporting, he has also raised concerns about his son's mental health and
 
 316
 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,520
 the lack of medication during the trip.
 
 317
 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:21,120
 Just imagine these family dinner tables currently, two parents who once shared a child our split,
 
 318
 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,640
 expouses or fighting in court.
 
 319
 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:32,640
 There's a deceased teenage girl and a surviving teenage boy under suspicion and this is all
 
 320
 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,240
 playing out in public.
 
 321
 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,880
 It's a nightmare on top of a nightmare.
 
 322
 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:39,880
 It's horrible.
 
 323
 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:40,880
 I can't imagine.
 
 324
 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:46,840
 Well, let's talk about why this might be moving more slowly than people expect because I know
 
 325
 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:53,400
 a lot of listeners are probably thinking, hey, she was found under a bed hidden with a homicide
 
 326
 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,600
 ruling why hasn't someone been arrested.
 
 327
 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:03,720
 Crimes on cruise ships, especially in international waters, are legally complicated.
 
 328
 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:10,160
 The FBI often gets jurisdiction under what's called special maritime jurisdiction, but they're
 
 329
 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,280
 dealing with a moving crime scene.
 
 330
 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,080
 There's a limited window to collect this evidence before the ship turns around rebords
 
 331
 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:25,000
 with new passengers and then there's a mix of US and foreign laws.
 
 332
 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:31,920
 You've also got forensic work on the body and the cabin, digital evidence that would be
 
 333
 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,160
 phones, texts, face-time logs, social media.
 
 334
 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,600
 You have witness interviews with passengers and crew who might already be back home and
 
 335
 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,080
 no telling and where that is.
 
 336
 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:50,840
 And you also in this case have questions about the suspect who's 16 with potential mental
 
 337
 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:57,240
 health and medication issues, which that might lead to evaluations and reports before
 
 338
 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,480
 charges are filed.
 
 339
 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,400
 On top of that, prosecutors have decisions to make.
 
 340
 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,320
 Do they charge him in federal court under maritime jurisdiction, like we said?
 
 341
 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,120
 Do they refer this case to the state prosecutors in Florida?
 
 342
 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:21,720
 Do they treat him as a juvenile or do they want to try him as an adult because of the severity
 
 343
 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,280
 of this alleged crime?
 
 344
 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:30,040
 According to the stepmother's attorney, that's exactly what the FBI and prosecutors are
 
 345
 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:40,040
 weighing right now.
 
 346
 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,800
 They want a case that can survive in court, not just based off of suspicion and outrage.
 
 347
 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,720
 We need to say this clearly as well.
 
 348
 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,720
 There is a lot of speculation online about what happened to Anna.
 
 349
 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,640
 There are Reddit threads, TikToks and keyboard detectives pointing fingers.
 
 350
 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,880
 Some of that is based on real reporting and let's just be real,
 
 351
 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,880
 some of it is rumor and just pure theory.
 
 352
 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:12,080
 But when you strip all that away and ask what do we actually know, this is what it boils
 
 353
 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,400
 down to.
 
 354
 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,480
 Anna was alive in a good condition enough to be at dinner the night before.
 
 355
 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,120
 She told her family she felt unwell then she went back to the cabin.
 
 356
 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:29,160
 She was rooming with her younger brother and stepbrother who supposedly they wanted to
 
 357
 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,920
 all share the cabin.
 
 358
 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,400
 She wasn't seen for many hours.
 
 359
 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,000
 She was then found under the bed.
 
 360
 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:43,160
 She was wrapped and covered and the medical examiner said she died by homicide via some form
 
 361
 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,040
 of choking that still to be looked into more.
 
 362
 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:52,800
 Now court followings and hearings now publicly label her 16 year old stepbrother as a
 
 363
 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,880
 suspect and the focus of the FBI investigation.
 
 364
 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:04,720
 He's been moved to live with relatives and prosecutors haven't yet decided on charges.
 
 365
 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:10,160
 Everything beyond that the exact sequence of events in that room, the intent, whether
 
 366
 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:17,080
 there was a struggle, sexual motive or even something else to that point, we don't know
 
 367
 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,240
 it's unknown to the public.
 
 368
 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:26,120
 Yeah, we just don't know a ton, but I will say spreading false information so it's not
 
 369
 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:27,120
 good.
 
 370
 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:28,560
 That can hurt families.
 
 371
 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:35,040
 It can poison potential juries and it can even make it harder for the prosecutors to
 
 372
 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,240
 do their jobs.
 
 373
 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,040
 It can completely ruin the case.
 
 374
 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,760
 I mean, yeah, it's very important that if you are going to speak about it, try to just
 
 375
 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,800
 try to be as real and true as you can.
 
 376
 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,440
 But what would justice look like in a case like this?
 
 377
 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:57,000
 One possibility is that the FBI finishes its investigation and gets all the lab results.
 
 378
 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:02,600
 They decide there's enough evidence to charge and a stepbrother with homicide and maybe
 
 379
 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:10,200
 in federal court, maybe in state court, if that happens, we'll see a painful and it's
 
 380
 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,680
 going to be a highly public process where the family has to relive everything in front
 
 381
 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,080
 of a judge and jury.
 
 382
 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,520
 Another possibility is that prosecutors decide they don't have enough to prove a case beyond
 
 383
 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,200
 a reasonable doubt.
 
 384
 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,520
 At least that's not right now.
 
 385
 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:34,200
 That's a different kind of nightmare where Anna's death remains technically unresolved,
 
 386
 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:39,760
 even if people in the family believe they know who's responsible.
 
 387
 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,680
 It's just not final in the court.
 
 388
 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:49,840
 There's also a narrow, more complicated set of possibilities, things like a plea to a lesser
 
 389
 00:29:49,840 --> 00:30:00,120
 charge, a juvenile poor disposition that's mostly seated, or some hybrid resolution that
 
 390
 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:06,520
 tries to account for the stepbrother's age and mental health if those factors are significant.
 
 391
 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:12,880
 We just don't know yet and anyone who tells you that they know how this is going to end
 
 392
 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,880
 or what happened.
 
 393
 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,520
 They're just guessing.
 
 394
 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,520
 Absolutely.
 
 395
 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,440
 But before we close, I want to go ahead and circle back to Anna.
 
 396
 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:28,040
 It's really easy in true crime to get wrapped up in suspects and court cases and forensic
 
 397
 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,520
 details.
 
 398
 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,200
 But at the center of all this was a teenage girl.
 
 399
 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,840
 A few weeks before the cruise, she was posting her normal senior stuff.
 
 400
 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,400
 She was hanging out with friends.
 
 401
 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:45,040
 She was working, making plans to serve in the military and just happy, excited, and talking
 
 402
 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,520
 about her future.
 
 403
 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:52,760
 Her classmates, they decorated her parking spot at school with flowers and notes that teachers
 
 404
 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:58,960
 wrote long heartfelt post and just talked about how much they'd miss her popping into
 
 405
 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:00,440
 their offices.
 
 406
 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:07,840
 Her family talks about her laughter, her sense of humor, the way she could pull people out
 
 407
 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,000
 of a bad mood.
 
 408
 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,120
 She just really, she sounds like an amazing individual.
 
 409
 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:15,720
 I agree.
 
 410
 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:22,640
 And for them where this case stands, that's not just about legal strategy.
 
 411
 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:30,240
 It's about whether the story they tell themselves about Anna's last night has an ending, whether
 
 412
 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:36,640
 someone is held accountable, whether there's a record of someone that says, "This is what
 
 413
 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,680
 happened to her and it mattered enough for us to name it."
 
 414
 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:42,680
 Absolutely.
 
 415
 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,280
 This is a, I hate ones where we just don't know.
 
 416
 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:56,040
 Yeah, because we could sit here all, or the rest of the night and discuss what we think
 
 417
 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,880
 could have happened.
 
 418
 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,400
 And there's only a couple of people, so I do hope that they get to the bottom of what
 
 419
 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,120
 happened to her who was responsible.
 
 420
 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:13,840
 And even though I don't believe in justice, that you can make this better for the family
 
 421
 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:22,160
 or closure, maybe they can just have a little bit extra comfort in knowing that some part
 
 422
 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:29,280
 of Anna does have a little bit of justice where somebody is actually paying for this crime
 
 423
 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,240
 because it just breaks my heart.
 
 424
 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,760
 It seems like she really had a bright future ahead of her.
 
 425
 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:41,360
 And just talking about her makes, I think we're both on the same page talking about the victims
 
 426
 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:46,880
 and highlighting them when we do these stories is really the most important part.
 
 427
 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,160
 It keeps them alive and it lets people know their story.
 
 428
 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,440
 And that's what's important about this.
 
 429
 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,880
 And I do want to say it's very important.
 
 430
 00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:02,800
 If you have an information about what happened on the Carnival Horizon on November 7th, 2025,
 
 431
 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:10,880
 you can reach out directly to FBI's Miami Field Office or your local field office and just
 
 432
 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:22,520
 ask to be connected to the case team. 
 
 433
 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:23,520
 Yep.
 
 434
 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,920
 And we will meet back here in two weeks.
 
 435
 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,400
 Thank you so much for listening.
 
 436
 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:35,640
 You know, I know we've been focusing more on these true crime stories because it's important
 
 437
 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:43,760
 to both Amy and I just in general, but from the victim support, I guess, I don't know how
 
 438
 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:49,840
 I was to say it, but from the victim's side of it and trying to highlight these people and
 
 439
 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,880
 tell their stories and talk about them so that like you said, they aren't forgotten.
 
 440
 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,200
 So thank you for listening.
 
 441
 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:04,000
 Hopefully you keep listening because we are definitely going to keep with this true
 
 442
 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,000
 crime.
 
 443
 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,120
 The minisodes are going to be more true crime based.
 
 444
 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:15,160
 I feel like if I was in their situation and I had someone missing or needed answers about
 
 445
 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:21,640
 their death, I would be very grateful to any and all that shared anything about my loved
 
 446
 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:22,640
 one.
 
 447
 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,480
 So I do hope that this does help in some way.
 
 448
 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:27,480
 Yes.
 
 449
 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:35,800
 Alright, well, we will meet back here in two weeks and we'll be starting a new trio.
 
 450
 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:36,800
 How exciting.
 
 451
 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,040
 I can't wait.
 
 452
 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,040
 Yes.
 
 453
 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,040
 Thank you everyone.
 
 454
 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,040
 Bye.
 
 455
 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,040
 Bye.
 
 456
 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:50,520
 Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us.
 
 457
 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,800
 Keep on the lookout for our next episode and stay gruesome.
 
 458
 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,800
 [Music]