1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,000 [Music] 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,920 Hello and welcome to our podcast Talk Gruesome to Me, where we talk about movies and shows 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,800 that cover true crime, paranormal, and horror. 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,600 I am one of your hosts, Dawn. 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:27,400 I am currently located in Los Angeles and I think I'm pretty well versed in the horror 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:28,400 genre. 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,000 Especially those 80s classics. 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,720 A quick fun fact about me? 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,720 I have a very extensive crystal collection. 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:37,720 Hello, I'm Amy. 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,280 I'm from Kentucky and my area of expertise for this podcast is paranormal. 12 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,000 A few fun facts about me. 13 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,000 I'm an empath. 14 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,120 I collect old dolls and you know, I've never flown on an airplane. 15 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,440 Can you believe that? 16 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,920 Now Dawn and I are also obsessed with true crime, so here we are. 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:56,920 Talk Gruesome to Me. 18 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,280 Okay, we're back. 19 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:00,800 Part two, Mica Miller. 20 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,440 We ran out of time like we always do. 21 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,240 Here's the good part. 22 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:12,200 Before we get back into where we left off, which was the FBI showing up at J.P. 23 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:18,440 House, in the previous episode, Amy said, "Oh, we should have played the 911 call." 24 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:23,360 So our break actually allowed us to get that ready. 25 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:29,960 So let's listen to that and then we'll just jump right back into the FBI at J.P. 26 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:30,960 House. 27 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:32,960 I'm from a county normal board. 28 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:35,160 What's the address of your emergency? 29 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:42,460 Hi, are you able to trace the location of my phone? 30 00:01:42,460 --> 00:01:50,800 You don't know where you're at? 31 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,040 A national park. 32 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,760 What's the phone number you're calling me from? 33 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:08,480 A4365525242. 34 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:09,280 Where's the park? 35 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,480 Like a band. 36 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:24,440 And Bear Bluff. 37 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:34,800 I have my location on, I think, on my phone. 38 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,160 Find my phone and go on. 39 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,400 I just did my shadow, my location. 40 00:02:41,400 --> 00:03:05,600 Okay, I'm showing. 41 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:07,600 She's trying to find her. 42 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:14,600 I don't think you are in Robinson County. 43 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:24,040 Get the number you've just done, but we were safe, right? 44 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:29,040 Yes, that's right. 45 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,040 Okay. 46 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,160 Tell me what's the matter, what happened? 47 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:50,360 I'm about to kill myself and I just want my family to know where to find me. 48 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,360 Okay, ma'am. 49 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,360 Just let's open one of the things, okay? 50 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:01,160 Let me make sure I got the exact location where you're at, okay? 51 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,160 Just one minute. 52 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:12,080 Okay, that was basically it and then they lost contact with her. 53 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,760 I couldn't imagine being the dispatcher. 54 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,000 No, I was just thinking that when it was playing. 55 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,720 I know people always criticize all of the 911 calls in listen. 56 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:29,160 Some of the dispatchers clearly don't have great training or something, but in my mind 57 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:34,720 was she was being quiet after she figured out where she was trying to get someone there 58 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,800 and keeping her on the phone. 59 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,240 That's kind of what I felt like she might be doing. 60 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,240 I don't know. 61 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:41,240 She handled it. 62 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:42,240 I think pretty well. 63 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:49,760 Yeah, but let's, I feel like that this will play into the whole conversation when we 64 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,360 get to the Netflix show, The Death of the Pastor's Wife. 65 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,160 So I feel like we both have a lot to say. 66 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,160 Yeah, we do. 67 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:11,080 So let's just pick back up at the FBI were at JP's house and then that people were getting 68 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:17,040 all into the case again and getting reignited and everything. 69 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,080 Let's then jump to a year later. 70 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,920 That was in 2024. 71 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:32,120 On December 18th, 2025, the US Attorney's Office for the District of South Carolina announced 72 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:37,120 that a federal grand jury had indicted JP Miller. 73 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,440 Two charges. 74 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:45,040 One was cyber sulking and then the other was making false statements to federal investigators. 75 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:51,200 And suddenly some of the things Mica had reportedly been saying before she died were sitting 76 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,840 guess where in federal indictment. 77 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:55,840 Shocker. 78 00:05:55,840 --> 00:06:00,640 But that's why this development was so significant. 79 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:07,800 The federal prosecutors alleged that JP's cyber sulking of Mica began in November 2022 80 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:13,160 and continued for years through 2024 the day that she died. 81 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:20,760 And according to the indictment, the alleged conduct included unwanted and harassing communications. 82 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:29,240 Again, posting the nude photograph without Mica's consent, the tracking of her vehicle, 83 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:34,320 interfering with her finances and her daily activities, contacting her more than 50 times 84 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:39,720 in a day, the vehicle to her tires and then the second charge. 85 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,800 They say that JP lied when he was questioned about the tire incident. 86 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:51,600 And according to prosecutors, he denied damaging her tires, but investigators alleged that he 87 00:06:51,600 --> 00:07:00,160 had purchased a tire deflation device online and then sent messages to other people about 88 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,160 Mica's vehicle. 89 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,160 That is pretty chill. 90 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:08,680 And when you remember that she reported her tire being damaged in a GPS tracker being 91 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:14,560 found on her car, it absolutely puts those earlier police reports into different 92 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,560 context. 93 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,760 But again, an indictment is an accusation. 94 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,520 It's not a conviction. 95 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,320 JP, he pled not guilty. 96 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:31,420 And he is presumed innocent, of course, unless prosecutors prove the charges beyond a reasonable 97 00:07:31,420 --> 00:07:32,740 doubt. 98 00:07:32,740 --> 00:07:40,880 And then in January 26, so this year, JP appeared in federal court in South Carolina. 99 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,280 Mica supporters were there, obviously. 100 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:49,200 They were dressed in purple and they packed the courtroom and then they were gathered outside. 101 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,120 And then as we just said, JP pled not guilty. 102 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,480 The court set a $100,000 bond. 103 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:02,880 He was offered to submit to location monitoring and restrictions on this travel. 104 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,720 Prosecutors also said that he is possibly a flight risk. 105 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:13,800 So according to reporting from the hearing, investigators had discovered significant amounts 106 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:19,760 of cash as well as silver bars and coins in a safe at his house. 107 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:27,320 So they alleged that he had also threatened members of Mica's family and witnesses that 108 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,760 were cooperating with investigators. 109 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:36,400 Those allegations were part of the argument at the volunteering. 110 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:43,080 And the fact that people were still showing up almost two years later tells you everything 111 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,840 about how deeply this case affected people. 112 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:52,600 This just wasn't a viral hashtag and it only lasted a couple of weeks. 113 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,240 This justice for Mica, that movement it persisted on. 114 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:58,240 Yeah. 115 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:05,360 And so we're at today, as of now, his federal criminal case is still pending. 116 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,240 He again is still sticking to the not guilty. 117 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,600 And then a trial, and this is pretty typical, it's been delayed multiple times and it's 118 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:19,840 expected to be in October, but we'll see what happens. 119 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,480 We'll see he's not been charged with murder. 120 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,120 Let's say that again. 121 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:30,280 He has not been charged with assisting with her suicide. 122 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,360 I don't know if you call it assisting, but being involved in that. 123 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,040 He hasn't been charged with causing her death. 124 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,600 And of course, that brings us right back to the question people have been arguing about since 125 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,600 2024. 126 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,880 What does justice for Mica actually mean? 127 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:54,400 Well, because if justice means proving somebody else physically killed her, the publicly available 128 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,680 evidence just doesn't support that conclusion. 129 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:05,440 And the authorities determine that she died by suicide, but if justice means determining 130 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:12,320 whether she was stalked, harassed, controlled, or abused before she died, now that's a different 131 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:17,560 story and the subject of federal criminal prosecution. 132 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:19,120 And that's kind of where we at. 133 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,560 That's a different conversation. 134 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:24,800 It definitely is, but okay. 135 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,600 Now, Dawn, what bothers you most about this case? 136 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:36,560 Well, I mean, there's a lot, but she kept trying to tell people that something was wrong. 137 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:44,640 And some of it sure might have been subliminal in her videos, but she made reports. 138 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,760 She talked to people about it. 139 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:52,080 She documented things there were the trackers and the tires. 140 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:59,120 And again, some of it was subliminal, but she did talk publicly about abuse. 141 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:07,260 After her death, now it's come out in federal documents that she was being stalked, knowing 142 00:11:07,260 --> 00:11:10,840 the history of what happened with my family. 143 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:19,720 Not that it was like this, but it just makes me feel even stronger about domestic violence 144 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:29,680 and people not doing something in time and people not being in jail when they should be in 145 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:36,440 jail and then they continue to do things like this and they end up doing it to multiple 146 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:37,440 people. 147 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,280 Yeah, and that's exactly how I feel. 148 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,560 I don't, of course, need a big conspiracy. 149 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:51,400 And sometimes I think true crime accidentally does a victim disservice. 150 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:57,480 And I believe that because reality isn't dramatic for most people. 151 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,680 Yeah, and that, listen, that comes with social. 152 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:02,920 It does. 153 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:08,480 And reality TV being crazy and dramatic and I don't know. 154 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:09,480 Yeah. 155 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:10,480 I don't know. 156 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,880 That's a whole different subject. 157 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:13,880 Most definitely. 158 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:20,320 I mean, if a woman is saying that she's scared, someone's tracking her, they slit their tires, 159 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:26,680 she tried to leave and then was manipulated back and all that. 160 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:31,600 You know, it's not some elaborate murder conspiracy like this stuff actually has. 161 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:32,600 Yes. 162 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:41,160 And maybe we all should have, well, not us, but maybe somebody aka the law should have jumped 163 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,440 in while she was still alive. 164 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:44,440 I agree. 165 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:45,440 Yeah. 166 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,640 And gosh, it's, I couldn't agree more. 167 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,800 I don't understand why we have so many of these cases happening. 168 00:12:54,800 --> 00:13:03,200 But I think that's why people with this case, they got so emotional about it because she was 169 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:04,200 there. 170 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:11,280 She was asking for help, begging for help and still what happened exactly what she said 171 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,280 would happen. 172 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,520 I think there's so many levels to it. 173 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,520 Some of it is women not being believed. 174 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:30,500 Some of it is people, especially within the church that we can talk about that when we 175 00:13:30,500 --> 00:13:32,360 get to the documentary as well. 176 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:41,680 But there is such a thing as sort of religious abuse, you know, where someone thinks that 177 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:46,000 they can't leave because of what will happen in the eyes of God. 178 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,000 Like that's a thing. 179 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,000 Yes. 180 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,500 Yeah, absolutely. 181 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:57,000 And her also wanting to be a, a bride of church, serve her husband, serve her Lord. 182 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:02,240 Well, and it was even more so with her because her husband was the pastor. 183 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,240 Yes. 184 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:04,240 Exactly. 185 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:05,240 You know. 186 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:06,240 Yeah. 187 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:13,200 Of course, I know a lot of people watch this and they thought how many times does someone 188 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,640 have to say they're afraid before they're believed? 189 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,040 You know we did. 190 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,760 How much documentation are they supposed to collect? 191 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:29,040 I mean, do you need photographs, police reports, tracker, screenshots, witnesses, a restraining 192 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,040 order? 193 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:35,520 At what point does someone say, okay. 194 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,440 I believe that this person needs some help. 195 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:47,320 And then of course, that didn't happen and she does. 196 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:52,200 So I totally understand why people are angry. 197 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,200 It angers me. 198 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,080 I do too, obviously. 199 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:05,280 And the whole, we'll break this down, but listen, suicide and abuse aren't mutually 200 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,280 exclusive. 201 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,360 You don't have to choose one. 202 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,960 Sure, maybe she died of suicide, but there was also abuse. 203 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,280 Clear abuse. 204 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:17,960 It's documented. 205 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,000 And both can be true. 206 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:25,400 The federal indictment is specifically alleging this conduct that was done against her by 207 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:26,400 him. 208 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,880 Yeah, which changes how we should talk about suicide because sometimes people hear suicide 209 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,400 and they think, well, nobody else is responsible for anything. 210 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,400 They did it to themselves. 211 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,400 It's too simple. 212 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:39,400 Yeah. 213 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:40,400 Yeah. 214 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:46,720 Being legally responsible for someone's death is one thing, but morally responsible of how 215 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,360 you treat other people, especially someone that you're supposed to care about so much, that's 216 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:59,360 a whole different story and question and being criminally responsible for harassment or 217 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,680 stalking or whatever. 218 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:02,680 What are we doing? 219 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,160 I don't... 220 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,400 It can all be true, you know what I mean? 221 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:07,400 Yeah. 222 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:13,640 And also, thank we've missed a huge part of Mica's story if we didn't talk about her religion 223 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,280 because she was, as we said, she was very deep into the church. 224 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:24,600 Again, listen, people think that way even when they're not married to the pastor, but she 225 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,280 was. 226 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:35,080 She was so intertwined in that church and in her relationship with him being sort of 227 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:40,280 exacerbated in that environment because, at least I'm... 228 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:45,040 I don't know this, I'm just saying this, but I'm sure she didn't want to let down the 229 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,880 people who go to that church by getting a divorce. 230 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:54,320 Well, he was also drilling it into her head that she would be going against God. 231 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:55,320 Exactly. 232 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:02,920 And being that involved in the church and her sibling said she was really, like she truly 233 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,360 believed in the church and God. 234 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:06,960 That wasn't just a facade. 235 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:07,960 No. 236 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,800 Her faith was super important to her. 237 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:18,880 Leaving just is super complicated when you're in that environment. 238 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,000 People might see that as a spiritual failure. 239 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:30,080 I guess she publicly wrestled with this and we saw some of that in the episodes, but if 240 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,560 God hates divorce, how does he feel about abuse? 241 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,520 Just saying. 242 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,760 You know, I think that's one of the reasons her story hits so many people. 243 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:45,760 There are probably women sitting in churches right now thinking exactly the same thing. 244 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:51,400 And that's why discussions about spiritual abuse and coercive control became such an important 245 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,120 part of justice for Micah movement. 246 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:58,120 Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about that. 247 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:02,920 As we talked about a little bit in the first episode, Micah's family and her supporters 248 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,080 are pushing for legislative change. 249 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:13,320 South Carolina lawmakers have considered legislation addressing coercive control and expanding 250 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,440 how domestic abuse can be legally defined. 251 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:24,840 The proposed legislation includes behaviors like isolating someone from family and friends. 252 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:25,840 He did that. 253 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:33,240 He was monitoring communications and movements, controlling finances, threatening the humiliation 254 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:40,320 using technology to monitor someone and then it's just difficult to read that list without 255 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:46,280 thinking of some of the allegations contained in her case. 256 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:53,120 We said in the last episode, obviously no one wanted this to happen and I'm sure her family 257 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:54,120 is still struggling. 258 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:55,880 It's only been a couple of years ago. 259 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:56,880 Tell you. 260 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,520 If anything could have come out of it, I'm glad that they are trying to do this. 261 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:08,120 Yeah, so potentially, I mean, her name could change the law. 262 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:09,120 Yes. 263 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:16,120 Regardless of what happens to him in a federal trial, this could be a more important 264 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:20,280 outcome because it became bigger than her. 265 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,680 It became about abuse in general and what that looks like. 266 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:30,680 Yeah, there's another thing people did with Mica that drives me crazy. 267 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,240 They tried to analyze every single thing that she did. 268 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,080 Oh, that always happens. 269 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,360 I, oh God, victim blaming really piss me off. 270 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,000 But listen, victims aren't perfect. 271 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,520 People leave, they go back. 272 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:55,360 I don't know a single person that hasn't been in a shitty relationship and didn't go back. 273 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,280 I don't know one. 274 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:03,520 But people block their partners, then they unblock them and they file for divorce and go back. 275 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:09,120 They defend somebody that they maybe previously accused. 276 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,280 They love their abuser. 277 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:17,800 They can smile in pictures when they're absolutely miserable. 278 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:18,800 I don't know. 279 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:24,400 Human relationships are complicated and abusive relationships are even more complicated. 280 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,400 So when someone says, well, she went back. 281 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,240 That doesn't prove anything. 282 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,720 No, or she's seeing at the church again. 283 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,600 People don't behave like characters in a lifetime movie. 284 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:43,160 There isn't always one dramatic scene where somebody packs a suitcase and says, I'm leaving 285 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,160 forever. 286 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,520 You know, that just doesn't happen. 287 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,920 Sometimes leaving happens over and over again. 288 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:51,920 Yep. 289 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,120 All right, let's go over what we know. 290 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:59,160 So let's take like all the social media out and all of that. 291 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:00,160 Right. 292 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,000 Mica Miller, she was 30 years old. 293 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,720 Her marriage to JP Miller was breaking down. 294 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:12,480 And she had initiated separating from him legally. 295 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,800 And then she had also reported harassment. 296 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,520 She had expressed that fear. 297 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,000 Tracking devices are documented on vehicles. 298 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,760 And she publicly discussed that abuse. 299 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:33,040 Now on that day, April 27, 2024, she traveled to North Carolina. 300 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,000 She purchased a firearm. 301 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:42,800 She called 911 and indicated that she was going to kill herself and that she wanted authorities 302 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,440 to be able to find her for her family, which is what we heard on the call. 303 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,200 And then she was subsequently found. 304 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,880 Pass away at that park. 305 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,240 And the investigators, they reviewed surveillance footage. 306 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,520 They looked through evidence and witnesses and all of that. 307 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:07,000 And they determined that she died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. 308 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,240 It was ruled a suicide. 309 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:16,600 It was an investigators' establish that JP was not in North Carolina when she passed away. 310 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:22,640 Nothing publicly released has established that another person physically killed Mica. 311 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:29,240 There are also facts concerning her death, but that's not where the story ended. 312 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:36,360 Several authorities continued investigating and the FBI searched JP's home in 2024. 313 00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:41,720 A federal grand jury and died at home in December of 2025. 314 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:48,640 Prosecutors now alleged that he's cyber-stocked Mica from November 2022 through the day of her 315 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,720 death. 316 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:56,760 They alleged he repeatedly contacted her, tracked her vehicle, inferred with her finances 317 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:03,880 and daily activities, posted nude images of her without permission and damaged her tires. 318 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:10,320 They also alleged that he lied to federal investigators about damaging those tires. 319 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:17,120 JP, of course, has pled non-guilty and his case remains pending. 320 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:21,160 All the people online, I don't know. 321 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,600 I feel like they both helped and hurt the case. 322 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:25,600 I don't know. 323 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,280 Some people, and this happens a lot in social media. 324 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,520 It's just where we're at. 325 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,640 Some people cross the lines and some people spread misinformation. 326 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:41,520 Sometimes it's on purpose, but people were accusing him without evidence in La Sina. 327 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,800 I'm no JP's down. 328 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,720 I'm just saying facts here. 329 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:53,000 Some people treated some of these allegations and things like they were a fact before they 330 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,000 knew anything. 331 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,240 We just can't do that. 332 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:03,200 Again, I was right in there with everybody else trying to figure out what happened. 333 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:08,840 One thing was it did keep her name in the news, which was a good thing. 334 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,200 People were not going to let this go. 335 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,040 People kept talking about that coercive control and they kept showing up and that movement 336 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,040 kept going. 337 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:24,000 Now there's proposed legislation that has her name. 338 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:32,360 The lesson shouldn't be Internet sleuth solved, Mica's murder, because technically there's 339 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:35,760 no murder to solve a better lesson. 340 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:43,240 It might be that people listened to what she had been saying and hopefully it listened. 341 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:49,280 Could it have happened before she died and that clearly would have been better, yes, but 342 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,880 maybe that will save someone else. 343 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:52,880 Maybe so. 344 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,160 And being the kind of person Mica was, I think that she would be proud of that. 345 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,120 I really do. 346 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:03,520 But that's the part that's heartbreaking. 347 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,920 Mica, she's not here to see any of this. 348 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,960 She doesn't get to see hundreds of people wearing purple. 349 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,240 She doesn't get to see people say her name. 350 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:21,360 She doesn't get to see lawmakers talking about coercive control. 351 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:26,880 She doesn't get to know that people finally listened. 352 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,920 And her story is more complicated than just why she murdered. 353 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,760 There was evidence. 354 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,440 It's been ruled a suicide. 355 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:44,680 But that conclusion should not be distorted just because a different answer feels more satisfying 356 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:45,680 to someone. 357 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:52,160 Accepting that conclusion also doesn't mean ignoring everything that happened prior to 358 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:53,960 her death. 359 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,760 We have the indictment. 360 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,960 We'll see what happens with that. 361 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:04,440 And then we'll see if they can prove any of these allegations without a reasonable doubt. 362 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,280 Hopefully they can. 363 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,160 And hopefully people keep paying attention. 364 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,160 Definitely. 365 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,120 We don't have to invent evidence. 366 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:15,120 It's there. 367 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:17,040 We just have to pay attention. 368 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,520 And we have to take these things more seriously. 369 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:20,520 That's all. 370 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,120 I agree. 371 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:29,600 That's probably the biggest thing I'm taking away from this one. 372 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:37,040 People believe people when they reach out to you for help. 373 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,440 And document. 374 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:44,040 I always, because I have had friends in situations like this. 375 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:52,640 And the first thing I always say, document, document, document, and make an emergency plan. 376 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,280 Those are the things. 377 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:03,960 But let's talk about the Netflix series because we already only have, I think, nine minutes. 378 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,520 Da-da-da-da-da. 379 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:06,520 Again. 380 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:07,520 Oh, boy. 381 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,320 We watched The Death of a Pastors Wife. 382 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,240 And I think you need to go watch it seriously. 383 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,720 I have so many feelings after watching that. 384 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:18,720 Was it three episodes? 385 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:19,720 I think so. 386 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,880 Yes, it was three episodes. 387 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,360 I'm just Netflix. 388 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:24,360 Yes, Netflix. 389 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:26,560 I'm just disgusted by J.P. Miller. 390 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:35,680 I mean, of course, I feel like the evidence has proved that she what did take her own life. 391 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,400 But I don't believe it was from her own doing. 392 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,200 I don't believe that he's guilty or not guilty. 393 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,200 I don't believe that he's innocent. 394 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,880 I believe everything that he did up until that time. 395 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:57,800 I will say, in the beginning, going down the dark social media rabbit holes, I was definitely 396 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:04,120 convinced this man did it somehow, even though he wasn't in North Carolina. 397 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:05,120 Same. 398 00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:11,440 I heard something like something happened where he did it. 399 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,360 No, he clearly didn't pull the trigger because he wasn't in that state. 400 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:21,200 But I was convinced, did he use AI to call 911? 401 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,200 What is going on? 402 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,400 This guy did this. 403 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,400 What is going on? 404 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,200 He's guilty as hell. 405 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:28,840 Then your rational brain takes over here. 406 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,960 Like that is so far-betched. 407 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,440 And listen, I'm not a huge conspiracy theory. 408 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,720 I mean, okay, let's get in there a little bit. 409 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,760 What if somebody from the church helped him? 410 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:38,760 Oh, yeah. 411 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,160 We didn't even talk about that. 412 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:50,680 So JP had a side girl, by the way, who went to the church. 413 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,040 Guess what happened to her husband? 414 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,200 Micah. 415 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,960 This goes, "God, do we need a third episode?" 416 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,760 We might need a third episode. 417 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:00,760 I mean... 418 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,520 Oh my God. 419 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:11,080 Because we still have it wrapped into where she would be institutionalized at his hands. 420 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,800 We have not wrapped into his new wife or who she was married. 421 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,440 I mean, this is a lot. 422 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:18,440 It is. 423 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:19,440 We need a third episode. 424 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:20,440 We can't cover this in seven minutes. 425 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,440 There's no way. 426 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,440 No. 427 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:23,440 So, let's... 428 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,440 All right. 429 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:31,780 Let's just talk about specifically the Netflix series. 430 00:29:31,780 --> 00:29:33,060 And then we'll do part three. 431 00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:34,060 Yeah, I want to... 432 00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:39,540 This can be a three-parter because I want to come back in with some more facts. 433 00:29:39,540 --> 00:29:40,540 Yeah. 434 00:29:40,540 --> 00:29:42,300 Some more facts that it just... 435 00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:44,300 It makes you say, "What the fuck?" 436 00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:45,300 Yep. 437 00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:46,300 God. 438 00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:50,900 If you don't know about this case, you're going to hate this dude too. 439 00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:51,900 Oh, I hate him. 440 00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:53,940 Fuck you, JP. 441 00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:55,940 We are going to... 442 00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:59,340 We are going to talk about this guy and just... 443 00:29:59,340 --> 00:30:00,340 What a POS here. 444 00:30:00,340 --> 00:30:07,460 I mean, it took me watching a handful of his sermons to know I hated this man. 445 00:30:07,460 --> 00:30:08,460 And hate... 446 00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:09,460 I don't know. 447 00:30:09,460 --> 00:30:10,460 It's a very strong word. 448 00:30:10,460 --> 00:30:14,540 I very, very, very, very much dislike this man. 449 00:30:14,540 --> 00:30:16,580 I do because I'm not supposed to hate people. 450 00:30:16,580 --> 00:30:18,380 But I cannot stand this man. 451 00:30:18,380 --> 00:30:19,380 Oh, my gosh. 452 00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:20,780 I cannot stand this man. 453 00:30:20,780 --> 00:30:26,620 We haven't even gotten into either how young she was when they met and all of... 454 00:30:26,620 --> 00:30:27,620 13 years old. 455 00:30:27,620 --> 00:30:28,620 Yes. 456 00:30:28,620 --> 00:30:30,220 We really do. 457 00:30:30,220 --> 00:30:31,220 We need to come back. 458 00:30:31,220 --> 00:30:33,140 We need to... 459 00:30:33,140 --> 00:30:34,740 Everything's into this one. 460 00:30:34,740 --> 00:30:40,300 We've said what we wanted to say and we need to plan a whole new third one. 461 00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:42,100 Where we wrap into some more. 462 00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:43,860 The Netflix show is really good. 463 00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:45,020 You should watch it. 464 00:30:45,020 --> 00:30:47,980 And Netflix, they do great stuff. 465 00:30:47,980 --> 00:30:49,860 Well, how about this? 466 00:30:49,860 --> 00:30:54,900 How about you go watch it now and we'll talk about it? 467 00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:57,060 I mean, you got plenty of time. 468 00:30:57,060 --> 00:30:58,060 Yeah. 469 00:30:58,060 --> 00:31:00,420 Actually, I wouldn't mind to rewatch it. 470 00:31:00,420 --> 00:31:04,220 You all have two weeks till part three. 471 00:31:04,220 --> 00:31:08,380 I mean, I'll give the Netflix show eight out of ten. 472 00:31:08,380 --> 00:31:09,380 It was good. 473 00:31:09,380 --> 00:31:13,620 I'm going to go with a nine and a half and I'll tell you why. 474 00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:15,860 Because there was so... 475 00:31:15,860 --> 00:31:17,980 And I know Netflix didn't do it. 476 00:31:17,980 --> 00:31:20,100 But still, I love this show so much. 477 00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:22,540 This three part series. 478 00:31:22,540 --> 00:31:27,060 Because there was so much actual footage. 479 00:31:27,060 --> 00:31:32,460 And the footage in the church, footage of just around and about things they were doing, 480 00:31:32,460 --> 00:31:33,460 so many pictures. 481 00:31:33,460 --> 00:31:41,540 So you felt like by seeing that you could make more of an opinion of what you think their 482 00:31:41,540 --> 00:31:43,900 home life could be like. 483 00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:49,420 Because he said that he does not preach about anything that is not going on in his own 484 00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:50,740 life. 485 00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:55,420 And I have never been to a church that preached about anything that was going on in their 486 00:31:55,420 --> 00:31:57,780 life that was really concerning to me. 487 00:31:57,780 --> 00:32:01,620 But it also makes you stop and think. 488 00:32:01,620 --> 00:32:05,420 We need to just even cover the things he preached about in church. 489 00:32:05,420 --> 00:32:06,420 I know. 490 00:32:06,420 --> 00:32:07,420 Wacky. 491 00:32:07,420 --> 00:32:11,420 Really, really wacky stuff. 492 00:32:11,420 --> 00:32:12,420 Yeah. 493 00:32:12,420 --> 00:32:13,420 I... 494 00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:14,420 Yeah. 495 00:32:14,420 --> 00:32:15,420 Part three. 496 00:32:15,420 --> 00:32:16,420 Yeah, I know. 497 00:32:16,420 --> 00:32:23,700 I'm like, do I even want to get into details right now because we already have to do 498 00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:24,700 a part three? 499 00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:25,700 Part three. 500 00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:32,860 As far as the Netflix series goes, I do love they did have a lot of great footage, real 501 00:32:32,860 --> 00:32:37,180 life footage, and they interviewed quite a few people. 502 00:32:37,180 --> 00:32:43,180 The one thing I do think that they lacked was... 503 00:32:43,180 --> 00:32:50,260 And I don't know when they filmed that, but they didn't do really good coverage on what's 504 00:32:50,260 --> 00:32:51,780 happening today. 505 00:32:51,780 --> 00:32:56,540 And they didn't really talk about the Mica's Law and all of that. 506 00:32:56,540 --> 00:33:01,220 I just wonder if maybe it was way before that happened? 507 00:33:01,220 --> 00:33:02,220 Yeah. 508 00:33:02,220 --> 00:33:03,220 Maybe. 509 00:33:03,220 --> 00:33:04,220 I don't know. 510 00:33:04,220 --> 00:33:09,380 But I mean, hey, we're still leaving Room Open for another Netflix series, so... 511 00:33:09,380 --> 00:33:11,180 Well, yeah. 512 00:33:11,180 --> 00:33:13,300 And we'll see what happens. 513 00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:18,700 My feeling is I will guess that his court date will get postponed again. 514 00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:22,500 But I don't know, it's already been postponed multiple times, so maybe they'll make them stick 515 00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:23,500 to this one. 516 00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:28,140 Well, but you gotta think as big as this case is, they can just keep saying they're still 517 00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:30,300 gathered and evidence are trying to be prepared. 518 00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:31,700 So I look for it. 519 00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:35,140 I may be surprised, but I look for it to be postponed again. 520 00:33:35,140 --> 00:33:36,140 Yeah. 521 00:33:36,140 --> 00:33:37,140 That's common. 522 00:33:37,140 --> 00:33:40,340 Yeah, watch the Netflix series. 523 00:33:40,340 --> 00:33:44,100 Try to watch it before the next two weeks when we come back. 524 00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:50,900 And that way, you'll have more details on the case that are more correct in your mind. 525 00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:53,100 And then we can all rip JP apart together. 526 00:33:53,100 --> 00:34:01,500 You'll see, while we hate JP's, while we very, very, very, very, very, very hardly dislike JP so much. 527 00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:02,500 Better, sorry. 528 00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:05,100 Oh, I fuck him. 529 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:06,100 Fuck him. 530 00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:07,740 I'm just gonna say I hate him. 531 00:34:07,740 --> 00:34:13,100 I've seen someone who posted good morning to everyone except JP Miller. 532 00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:16,100 And I was like, yes. 533 00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:20,100 Yes, good morning to everyone, but he um, I like that. 534 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:21,900 Me too. 535 00:34:21,900 --> 00:34:26,700 I think we should all start messaging him and go into his house and tracking his cars. 536 00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:27,900 And it wouldn't just be real nice. 537 00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:29,900 He'd love that, wouldn't he? 538 00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:32,940 You're a lot closer than me. 539 00:34:32,940 --> 00:34:35,540 Yeah, I'd probably too far to do it either, but locals. 540 00:34:35,540 --> 00:34:39,100 No, I'm just saying like, how would he like that shit? 541 00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:40,900 Tracking device on your car? 542 00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:41,900 No. 543 00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:42,900 That's freaky. 544 00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:43,900 That's so freaky. 545 00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:47,900 I don't know why you would do that to anybody. 546 00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:49,900 But anyways, we're gonna keep talking about it. 547 00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:52,340 Because his head is fucked. 548 00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:53,860 He's a horrible person. 549 00:34:53,860 --> 00:34:54,860 True. 550 00:34:54,860 --> 00:34:57,860 I mean, he was down on the ground, sobbing. 551 00:34:57,860 --> 00:34:59,180 Oh my god. 552 00:34:59,180 --> 00:35:00,180 Yeah. 553 00:35:00,180 --> 00:35:02,860 That scene, I can't. 554 00:35:02,860 --> 00:35:05,460 Anyways, we only have a minute left. 555 00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:08,940 So we'll meet back here in two weeks. 556 00:35:08,940 --> 00:35:15,300 One, let's all join together in three weeks and talk about how much we don't like JP. 557 00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:16,300 There we go. 558 00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:17,300 Yeah. 559 00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:18,780 Join us back again. 560 00:35:18,780 --> 00:35:19,780 All right. 561 00:35:19,780 --> 00:35:20,780 Bye. 562 00:35:20,780 --> 00:35:21,780 Bye. 563 00:35:21,780 --> 00:35:30,180 Thanks for making it to the end and hanging out with us. 564 00:35:30,180 --> 00:35:33,580 Keep on the lookout for our next episode and stay gruesome. 565 00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:37,580 [Music]